If Mac's are so "underpowered"...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
ToLTeK
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If Mac's are so "underpowered"...

Post by ToLTeK » Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:54 am

If Mac's are so "underpowered" (according to the performance test thread of this forum), how come when I entered the PRO recording studio to master one of my tracks, every single aspect of recording/mastering was based on MAC only..? There was NOT a single Windows based computer to be seen... I am a "WinTel" user at the moment, but the response that I've got after "unpacking" my latest "Centrino" based laptop was very "cold", almost degrading... What gives... The only reason I have decided to purchase "Centrino" based laptop instead of Mac was the huge performance difference between the two, but now I wonder... is that all that matters?

Benshik
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Post by Benshik » Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:45 am

Whether they are from the film or music world, the experience and professionalism of studio guys is greatly valuable, but it also makes them among the most conservative and unflexible people I know. They are minutious, precise technitians but rarely open to experimentation.
If you've got a little something different than them, they will straight away have that "attitude".

So I think you should not care about these guys. A few years ago I guess they were all saying how CRAP music softwares are and that NEVER it will sound good. Well, time proved lots of them wrong... Even now lots of old school pros I know, you know, 35 yrs old guys into nujazz, think Live is an insignificant dj toy...
So just use your own judgement,
if you wanna be part of that strictly-coded community, sell your pc and... ditch Live!!!! coz they tend to prefer heavy old school stuff like Logic, PT or Digital Performer... (or you can tell you use Live only to sketch out songs, improvise, it sounds acceptable ;) )

But even though these studio guys can be too conservative, I must admit they are right: Macs are much better than PCs!!!!! and that even if Live for the moment performs better on a PC!!!

olafmol
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Post by olafmol » Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:55 am

one word: marketing

noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:36 pm

olafmol wrote:one word: marketing
bollocks. some of us have been using macs since 1990 (when they WERE better - many studios will have used macs since the mid to late 90's, when they were the only real choice) and just can't stand the way windows is organised. some of us just like mac os better: it's a UNIX system (which I like), it's safer and more stable. some of us like the fact that you can pull it out of the box and turn it on and it just works. some of us like have onboard audio that doesn't suck. some of us want to use software that only works on macs... etc. etc. etc. etc.

so no, it's not just about marketing.

-Paws

FaX-01
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Post by FaX-01 » Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:46 pm

A few other words -
Logic and Digital Performer .
Metasynth.
CellSynth
Zebra
Audio Units

You will however find ALOT of Dothan/Centrino users on the Pro-Tools forums let me tell you.


Seriously though who cares what you use.
Pro end work is not determined by the platform you work on.
It's determined by the quality of your work.
Or at least one would hope that's the case. :wink:
My aren't the wings of butterflies beautiful and do they not make wonderful perturbations.....

FaX-01
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Post by FaX-01 » Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:48 pm

Benshik wrote:But even though these studio guys can be too conservative, I must admit they are right: Macs are much better than PCs!!!!! and that even if Live for the moment performs better on a PC!!!


Quantify MUCH BETTER for me will you.
Seriously how objective is that statement !
My aren't the wings of butterflies beautiful and do they not make wonderful perturbations.....

olafmol
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Post by olafmol » Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:06 pm

noisetonepause wrote:
olafmol wrote:one word: marketing
bollocks. some of us have been using macs since 1990 (when they WERE better - many studios will have used macs since the mid to late 90's, when they were the only real choice) and just can't stand the way windows is organised. some of us just like mac os better: it's a UNIX system (which I like), it's safer and more stable. some of us like the fact that you can pull it out of the box and turn it on and it just works. some of us like have onboard audio that doesn't suck. some of us want to use software that only works on macs... etc. etc. etc. etc.

so no, it's not just about marketing.

-Paws
i've been using all kinds of hardware and OS'es sinds the 80s (that's mac's too, also unix systems, PC's, Z80 embedded stuff etc.) ... every system has it's pro's and con's......... in my experience the fact that most professional audio peeps (and graphics designers ) are using mac's is because they are used to it, plus MARKETING! (there i said it again ;) ..... apple is a powerfull brand and they design nice looking stuff .... if elegant, well designed, but not all to powerfull imho..........so there you have it ;)

and please, no mac vs pc flamewars again

Olaf

kovacs
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Post by kovacs » Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:54 pm

I use both and am happy. If I had to choose one over the other I'd choose the one I could afford. That would most likely be a PC, mainly because PC laptops come much cheaper than Mac laptops, spec-wise.

That's usually what it comes down to for most of us though, isn't it - how much bang can you get for your buck. Even an entry level Mac for audio work is beyond my current budget (which is admittedly low, as opposed to the balance on my credit card) :)
2011 MacBook Pro 13" 10.9 // Live 9 Suite // Ernie Ball Music Man Silhouette

kabuki
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Post by kabuki » Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 pm

Its funny how after all these years, one can throw a "Mac vs. PC" topic in ANY forum and it goes off like a bomb.

Who CARES what you use? Mac or PC, its all good. I preferr Mac because I can actually tinker under the OS's hood and it won't blow up, but I have plenty of PC power-user friends.

PCs are faster (for certain things) and have more games.
Macs are more stable (No viruses, less spyware, yet the systems alone are closer in stability)

I've seen ugly Macs AND PCs.

I've seen Pretty Macs and PCs.

I've also heard great music from BOTH platforms.

I think we should all gang up on the Linux kids!!! :P
15" PB 2.5 Ghz, 4 Gig RAM, 750 GB HD, Live 9 still no cue points or program change messages?!?. Doesn't do shit.

drumroll57
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Re: If Mac's are so "underpowered"...

Post by drumroll57 » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:37 pm

ToLTeK wrote: I am a "WinTel" user at the moment, but the response that I've got after "unpacking" my latest "Centrino" based laptop was very "cold", almost degrading...
Are you attached to your toaster, your TV, or your air conditioner? NO...

So why worry about what some geeks would say about your computer?

I have both Macs and PCs and not only do they co-exist very peacefully, complementing each other's strengths, but they help me do things with the tools that are best for every task. Don't worry about it, Centrino smokes any Powerbook so bad, it's a joke!!

SO just keep in mind that the kind of people that are giving you the cold shoulder are unfortunately very similar to those old ladies grumbling with their coupons at the supermarket. Going nowhere fast!

Focus on making music. F*ck them!!!!

I personally don't care for either computers THAT MUCH. What matters is what you will do with it. Be a genius, not a sheep!

D.
stay groovy!

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:49 pm

Sorry Fax but you miss macessentials. Macs are better because they are much better!!!!!, no pc is able to help with self esteem, feeling of belonging to elite, being something better, even when outperformed. PCs are just computers, they calculate, compute, very fast but that is all. Macs offers you better style, it is like being knighted into a holy orderof vanity. Performance does not matter, says Benshik, see, Mac can be even a great sex therapist, so no need to worry what happened last Saturday night, why she was so pissed and gone, man, performance does not matter. To hell with women, switch on your Mac!
For real, I am glad to see that very few Live users buy this stupid PC vs. mac mania.
Why only Macs in so many studios ? Years ago PCs were not usable, myself just use it only since XP and Cubase SX, hardly 2 years. Why should they change to PCs ? But anyway it is not worth to be bothered by others stupidity. Bother if they have Neumanns , Lexicons, Neve mixing console, if the rooms are good, mac or pc is really not so significant
FaX-01 wrote:
Benshik wrote:But even though these studio guys can be too conservative, I must admit they are right: Macs are much better than PCs!!!!! and that even if Live for the moment performs better on a PC!!!


Quantify MUCH BETTER for me will you.
Seriously how objective is that statement !

MarkH
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Post by MarkH » Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:57 pm

Here is your answer, Pro Tools. Even though HD TDM runs fine on XP you still cannot get all the plugins that are available for Mac. TDM is so expensive and not all studios can keep up. There are a lot of TDM users still using the old Mix hardware on OS 9. That part of the industry has it embedded in their heads that Mac is better (and for them it probably is).

I own both Mac and PC and I really dig OS X and the external aesthetic of Apple hardware. PC is more commodity than Mac but that doesn't really justify things one way or another.
Last edited by MarkH on Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mcconaghy
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Post by mcconaghy » Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:49 pm

In my opinion it all boils down to your OS of preference. I use Macs because I like the OS a LOT more than I hate Windows (that sentence makes sense in my head). There's always a trade-off. Macs, lose power versus gaining OS stability and maturity. WinTel, lose OS stability and security, but gain hardware power. I'd personally want an OS which is rock solid, and I'll gladly give up a bit of power in return.
Macs or PCs, there's no wrong choice, as long as you're running Live and making music it's all good!

noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:04 pm

Macs aren't the most powerful out there. I'll be the first to admit it.

SFW? By the time you've got your system back from the shop and all set up a new processor that's twenty times as fast and a fraction of the price will be out.

I repeat, SFW? I use a G3 iBook and it gets the job done. That's what's important. I will not stand by when somebody says I use a Mac cos of Apple's marketing. That's the most stupid thing I've ever heard. We don't even get Apple advertisements where I live... Just like the studio users with their ProTools gear (as someone pointed out), I use it cos it's the best for me, even if it isn't the cheapest or most powerful or latest or whatever. It's still the best.

Blegh. This is like getting business school kids to understand the concept of 'rich enough' :)

-Paws

aljen
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Post by aljen » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:07 pm

Well, please answer me one simple question:

Why there is no working Mac emulator on the Wintel plattform, while there is at least one woreking Wintel emulator for Macs?

This according performance.

cheers, aljen
"I'm not really a professional anything"
[Laurie Anderson]

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