How useful is the groove-pool for house/techno?

[bytheriver]

With the current discounts ending fairly soon (and my birthday being just before they do!) I took another look at upgrading from Live7->8. The only function besides little convenience things like track-grouping I can see that looks like it could make it worth upgrading is the groove-pool.

I make techno mostly so groove is pretty vital, currently I use guru to add grooved-perc in, but the only way I can add groove to synth parts and other non-guru parts is manually (which is hit and miss tbh).

With the groove pool I could bounce the guru patterns to audio, extract the groove and apply it to other parts (I think?), which sounds pretty useful to tighten up a track with perc-heavy techno or getting a bassline to groove with the drums.

Any abe-gurus got any input, or anyone want to give some feedback on using the groove function with dance music?

[Martyn]

The groove pool will be very useful to you if you already make lots of use of Guru's grooves, I couldn't go back to Live 7. I managed to extract Gurus grooves as midifiles from the demo back when Live 8 was in (original) beta, I can't remember how I did it now but if you wanted the grooves, as well as the original Cubase (Atari), I'd be happy to share.

[davepermen]

no real knowledge about groove, but the new enhanced operator is an awesome synth in live 8. it was my main reason to upgrade.

just to say

[SubFunk]

it's a nice addition that makes it for many people easier to achieve a groove, but honestly it does not do anything you can't achieve also without it using a different way. i only ever used it during the beta phase, to check it for bugs.

but hey, it is useful. and you can apply it to house and techno or whatever.

[Martyn]

it's a nice addition that makes it for many people easier to achieve a groove, but honestly it does not do anything you can't achieve also without it using a different way. i only ever used it during the beta phase, to check it for bugs.

but hey, it is useful. and you can apply it to house and techno or whatever.

The whole transient warping method now means that I never hear the odd phasing effect between beats that never were properly in time in any previous version of Live, it used to absolutely drive me nuts. I can now play any rhythm I want into Live, using keys, or guitar or whatever and not have to fuck around for hours getting other tracks to be in time properly by painstakingly moving motes with the snap turned off. In fact the opposite used to happen, I'd usually just tweak the recorded audio to match the dead straight, or chunka, chunka, shuffle of that awful original shuffle knob. Dead, grooveless result, with bizarre phasey beats every now and then. Either that or several wasted hours sliding midi notes and warp markers around hankering for that old Atari days when people used to know what musicians wanted in a sequencer.

Fuck man, if you can't hear a difference, or realise what a creative tool this is you're musically and rhythmically dead.

[SubFunk]

Fuck man, if you can't hear a difference, or realise what a creative tool this is you're musically and rhythmically dead.

LOL, i said it's useful, but well you can achieve the same another way, that is all i stated, if you think the groovepool is more suited, well nothing wrong with that, i never said it's useless or anything like it. and if you can't achieve the same result without it or think it's to much 'painstaking' work, well then use the groovepool, sonically, no, there is no difference. just use the way that makes you happy and get's you the result, sorry to be such a dick, but i assure you that many, many functions just make things easier, but they don't make actually anything different possible. you might disagree, but i do know that better, sorry.

viva la groovepool.

p.s. UKRuss, where is your promised groove collection you wanted to share?

[Martyn]

Speed of composition and tightness of results. That and the godsend of being able to pull a hit ahead of the beat without losing the transient which we could never do before Live 8's new groove engine. Every other serious sequencer on the market has had this stuff for years, it really should have been top priority years ago, and yes, we all know how to do it manually, some of us even like to see groove as something to compose as much as notes are, it's nice to be able to save the results for re-use elsewhere.

[SubFunk]

Speed of composition and tightness of results. That and the godsend of being able to pull a hit ahead of the beat without losing the transient which we could never do before Live 8's new groove engine. Every other serious sequencer on the market has had this stuff for years, it really should have been top priority years ago, and yes, we all know how to do it manually, some of us even like to see groove as something to compose as much as notes are, it's nice to be able to save the results for re-use elsewhere.

i can't see that i ever disagreed.

i only stated my personal take on it... resulting in...

but hey, it is useful. and you can apply it to house and techno or whatever.

happy new year.

[Martyn]

@Subfunk Yes you made your point clear, my last post was not aimed at you or a reply to any of your posts, it was simply a better summing up of a few points I forgot to add in my reply to the OP, the non loss of transients when pulling a beat ahead of the bar being the main one.

Happy new ear to you too.

[opuswerk]

The groove pool will be very useful to you if you already make lots of use of Guru's grooves, I couldn't go back to Live 7. I managed to extract Gurus grooves as midifiles from the demo back when Live 8 was in (original) beta, I can't remember how I did it now but if you wanted the grooves, as well as the original Cubase (Atari), I'd be happy to share.

Wouldn't mind those grooves i must say any chance you could put them up somewhere?

[Martyn]

The groove pool will be very useful to you if you already make lots of use of Guru's grooves, I couldn't go back to Live 7. I managed to extract Gurus grooves as midifiles from the demo back when Live 8 was in (original) beta, I can't remember how I did it now but if you wanted the grooves, as well as the original Cubase (Atari), I'd be happy to share.

Wouldn't mind those grooves i must say any chance you could put them up somewhere?

http://www.dedbird.net/files/GrooveTemplates.zip

^ There ya go.

[Sureno]

The groove pool will be very useful to you if you already make lots of use of Guru's grooves, I couldn't go back to Live 7. I managed to extract Gurus grooves as midifiles from the demo back when Live 8 was in (original) beta, I can't remember how I did it now but if you wanted the grooves, as well as the original Cubase (Atari), I'd be happy to share.

Wouldn't mind those grooves i must say any chance you could put them up somewhere?

http://www.dedbird.net/files/GrooveTemplates.zip

^ There ya go.

Appreciated

[Martyn]

Appreciated

Why the rolley eyes?

[3phase]

With the current discounts ending fairly soon (and my birthday being just before they do!) I took another look at upgrading from Live7->8. The only function besides little convenience things like track-grouping I can see that looks like it could make it worth upgrading is the groove-pool.

I make techno mostly so groove is pretty vital, currently I use guru to add grooved-perc in, but the only way I can add groove to synth parts and other non-guru parts is manually (which is hit and miss tbh).

With the groove pool I could bounce the guru patterns to audio, extract the groove and apply it to other parts (I think?), which sounds pretty useful to tighten up a track with perc-heavy techno or getting a bassline to groove with the drums.

Any abe-gurus got any input, or anyone want to give some feedback on using the groove function with dance music?

But dont be missguided..
there is no automatic groove extraction in live 8..at least none that works properly..

but you can manually set the transient markers on a groove template and than its possible to apply the grooves..

a usefull function after all... but when it hast to go quick you maybe better do it in logic... its a bit more refined there because theese function is implemented there since over 10 years...

[bytheriver]

[quote="Martyn"

http://www.dedbird.net/files/GrooveTemplates.zip

^ There ya go.

Thanks, I'm sure these will come in handy