I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
funky shit
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by funky shit » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:47 pm

Yeah but nothings perfect and never will be.
ive thrown out my perfectionist/neat and tidy/everything organised/folder category/this channel needs to be exactly like this thing/etc etc bullshit and ive been progressing a lot more ever since :D

computers are fun.
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funky shit
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by funky shit » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:49 pm

funky shit wrote:Yeah but nothings perfect and never will be.
(Obviously this doesn't apply for kebabs)
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beats me
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by beats me » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:13 pm

All PCs should be Macs.

Problem solved.

SubFunk
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by SubFunk » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:19 pm

funky shit wrote:Yeah but nothings perfect and never will be.
ive thrown out my perfectionist/neat and tidy/everything organised/folder category/this channel needs to be exactly like this thing/etc etc bullshit and ive been progressing a lot more ever since :D

computers are fun.
well, i don't see a contradiction with what we discuss and i 100% agree.
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Tone Deft
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by Tone Deft » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:23 pm

beats me wrote:All PCs should be Macs.

Problem solved.
good idea, macs can run Windows as it is.

problem solved.

edit - have people done a performance test involving one machine with both OSes?

in the past people have screwed up their systems by installing a driver for a computer camera. there's no way Ableton could protect against that, there's no reason a user could expect that. telling users that a certain computer will always work with Live would be a bad move, it's an impossible statement and it only gives users more to complain about.

what they can do is to learn from their mistakes of late and not repeat them. I see that happening with 8.1.1.
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, guitars, JX305, Nova
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SubFunk
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by SubFunk » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:38 pm

Machinesworking wrote: Greed is not an American invention, we're just really good at it. :mrgreen:
Outsourcing is the problem for sure, but not because other countries have poor worker quality etc. but because a company outsources to save money, which means quality control is not a priority, or is put on a tight budget etc. and the workers are earning 1/8 at most of what a german or american worker earns. I can guarantee you that I will do a much better job for a living wage than for a wage that only allows survival.

I do recognize that if I buy a product of almost any kind made in the USA, France, UK or Germany etc. the quality is higher, that's a reflection of the working class in those countries demanding a living wage. Problem is in places like China, Mexico and Malaysia they screw the workers, and use fear of losing their job etc. to make them work harder, not a good motivator.
of course, this goes a bit off track, but yes absolutely i agree, that is why some companies started to re-think and change, because the outsourcing is not happening to lower the sale prices but to have higher margins, so what here happened (and elsewhere) is that the prices stayed more or less the same... people here loose there work (trough outsourcing of production) and can't afford the 'german' products (or other quality products) anymore, because they are unemployed, plus the quality is sinking down to a ridiculous level... therefor people are by no means willing anymore to pay more and buy some shit instead... some companies now brought back the production, manufacturing at higher costs again, giving people work again, therefor achieving buying power and higher quality standards and it makes sense to buy a more expensive quality product again and people can afford it as well again.

and no greed is surely not an american invention, but making it largely popular and propagating it as a 'value' certainly is, and as i said we all follow like sheep. so no one is really better in that respect.
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jez3122
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by jez3122 » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:44 pm

who is this Mac guy :?:
Live 7.0.16, core 2 Quad 2.66ghz 4 gb ram,ESI U46SE,Vestax VCM-600, M-Audio Axiom 25,
evolution249c,Maudio Xpression pro, various guitars,Akai mpd16, NI intact,YamahaMSP3's,zoom323, a Ukulele and a Crate of Stella.

Machinesworking
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:17 am

3dot... wrote: there's no bugless software ..I know... they are complex system...
but THERE IS good programming...not just good design...
the implementation has to be correct..
we are clients not test subjects...

I just want them to point me to :
1. a computer
2. an os for the computer
3. an audio interface
4. a graphics card
OK well the real answer to this is to get boring, or at least start boring.
Buy a brand name PC or Mac, something super common, so mid range brand names, something that's guaranteed to be in Abletons
Alpha testing phases: mid range macbook and macbook pro, mac pro. Dell mid range products, Gateway etc.
Go with standard graphics cards at first.

I would hardcore trouble shoot your current set up first though.
This is the the suck part IMO. You have an RME right? that's safe.
The next thing is painful but the main possible problems beyond a standard high quality audio card and standard computer set up isn't the OS, it's drivers for controllers and VST plug ins with their various copy protection schemes. Uninstall all of these completely and introduce them back in slowly.

No controllers keyboards or pads etc. have what I would consider consistently 100% stable drivers.
Now on Mac, this is a bit better, but nothing to switch platforms over IMO, a lot of crappy controller drivers that crash or do not work on PC seem to have versions for Mac that are only marginally better. Even if the OS is written slightly better for this, a bad developer isn't going to all of a sudden get better because it's easier to code for. Also it's a cost thing, there isn't a lot of money in controllers so the code can be weak as hell sometimes.
Same applies for copy protection schemes, and VST code in general. It's a moving target to a degree, and various configurations can crash various systems. So take out your VSTs, take out your MIDI drivers and start to debug. When a DAW is released that has issues on one system but not another, it's because it wasn't tested on that system, so getting to bland vanilla to start is the only way to make sure it's not the computer itself.

Good luck. I was having problems with the Kore controller recently that ended up in kernal panics. It turned out to be a bad USB cable AND a fried logic(mother) board. 8O

davepermen
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by davepermen » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:23 am

i like mac

donalds




otherwise, nah, macs suck just as well as pcs. means, nearly not, but relying on one? not possible.
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

ethios4
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by ethios4 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:32 am

Honestly I don't really give a shit about platforms, but I do get a momentary chuckle from proclaiming the superiority of Windows!

davepermen
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by davepermen » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:13 am

well, if i just check what windows all delivers and on what funky hw i can run it, i chuckle everytime macs get proclaimed superiority..

:)

12" tablet from apple? hm no.. thanks hp.
media center with blueray and dvb-c for digital (and hd) tv? hm no.. thanks hfx.at
windows home server backing all up, sharing all my data. external access, soon hosting my webpage? hm no.. thanks ikea.

who can live with the restrictions apple gives to him, he has great fun with apple, then. i can't, and thus, i would hate having to use them.
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

3dot...
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by 3dot... » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:52 am

Machinesworking wrote:
3dot... wrote: there's no bugless software ..I know... they are complex system...
but THERE IS good programming...not just good design...
the implementation has to be correct..
we are clients not test subjects...

I just want them to point me to :
1. a computer
2. an os for the computer
3. an audio interface
4. a graphics card
OK well the real answer to this is to get boring, or at least start boring.
Buy a brand name PC or Mac, something super common, so mid range brand names, something that's guaranteed to be in Abletons
Alpha testing phases: mid range macbook and macbook pro, mac pro. Dell mid range products, Gateway etc.
Go with standard graphics cards at first.

I would hardcore trouble shoot your current set up first though.
This is the the suck part IMO. You have an RME right? that's safe.
The next thing is painful but the main possible problems beyond a standard high quality audio card and standard computer set up isn't the OS, it's drivers for controllers and VST plug ins with their various copy protection schemes. Uninstall all of these completely and introduce them back in slowly.

No controllers keyboards or pads etc. have what I would consider consistently 100% stable drivers.
Now on Mac, this is a bit better, but nothing to switch platforms over IMO, a lot of crappy controller drivers that crash or do not work on PC seem to have versions for Mac that are only marginally better. Even if the OS is written slightly better for this, a bad developer isn't going to all of a sudden get better because it's easier to code for. Also it's a cost thing, there isn't a lot of money in controllers so the code can be weak as hell sometimes.
Same applies for copy protection schemes, and VST code in general. It's a moving target to a degree, and various configurations can crash various systems. So take out your VSTs, take out your MIDI drivers and start to debug. When a DAW is released that has issues on one system but not another, it's because it wasn't tested on that system, so getting to bland vanilla to start is the only way to make sure it's not the computer itself.

Good luck. I was having problems with the Kore controller recently that ended up in kernal panics. It turned out to be a bad USB cable AND a fried logic(mother) board. 8O
...before this turns to be a MacVsPC ...
thanks for the help man.. I've done all that..
uninstalled reinstalled live/vsts deleted prefences.cfg...
short of changing a computer...or making a clean install
thing is I have 2 different systems...both pretty reliable
laptop : Lenovo /Core2Duo /4gb ram /NvidiaGraphics /RME MultifaceII
desktop: Asus p5q-deluxe /IntelQ9550 /8gb ram /ATI Radeon4850 /MOTU 24i/o
each acts up a bit different...
but both are buggy...
I was just wondering if there is any "holy grail" of a computer setup that is guaranteed to work in normal conditions...
(I don't tend to push the limits of the CPU in my sets..
well..at least not the ones intended to play live)
your advice is great though ..thanks. :wink:
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jez3122
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by jez3122 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:56 am

have you checked it's plugged in :?:
Live 7.0.16, core 2 Quad 2.66ghz 4 gb ram,ESI U46SE,Vestax VCM-600, M-Audio Axiom 25,
evolution249c,Maudio Xpression pro, various guitars,Akai mpd16, NI intact,YamahaMSP3's,zoom323, a Ukulele and a Crate of Stella.

3dot...
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by 3dot... » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:57 am

davepermen wrote: who can live with the restrictions apple gives to him, he has great fun with apple, then. i can't, and thus, i would hate having to use them.
that's my gripe with them as well..
don't like my ipod for the same reason...
but
I want to make music...so screw customization...
if it's tested and works... I'll even get a mac..
although I would prefer a PC..(only cuz I'm very used to it..
and comfortable with it..)

it's just a tool...so no need to fight..
Last edited by 3dot... on Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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3dot...
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by 3dot... » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:57 am

jez3122 wrote:have you checked it's plugged in :?:
no.
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