I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
SubFunk
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by SubFunk » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:22 pm

kb420 wrote:Am I missing something? Aren't Live 8's problems being experienced on both platforms?
yes indeed, but they could be solved easier not being dual platform.

whatever, it's a waste of time to discuss, it want ever happen because out of financial reasons. imagine how much they would need to improve there quality to get people into considering it worth enough to invest into a mac (osx) because live is THAT awesome and they desperately want to run it.
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mikemc
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by mikemc » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:32 pm

It can still happen regardless of which platform is selected as the reference platform.
SubFunk wrote:^^^ well and it shows the overall consciousness in this world, money goes over quality, life's and absolute everything else. thank you america for showing us the way and we idiots follow being as ass dumb.
:) well, it may be america's fault a little, but it is definitely rooted in the triad of competing concerns that include "time to market", "cost vs. value" and "product quality".

Taking any of these to the extreme is going to imbalance the final product: you can spend tons of time on quality assurance and release a quality product that is outmoded by the time it gets to market. You can be really cheap with your costs and come up with a product that is crappy, but you still make money. You can rush your product to market and end up having quality issues.

If your product is upgraded annually with new features, each upgrade accretes more code even if it is well managed, which means more things that can go wrong. It stand to reason that if you accrete less code per release, you ensure that your quality cycle is more controlled, but you end up with fewer features.

So you have to plan to include the features that provide the best cost vs. value and ascertain the impact on the quality cycle for each release.

SubFunk
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by SubFunk » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:39 pm

mikemc wrote:It can still happen regardless of which platform is selected as the reference platform.
SubFunk wrote:^^^ well and it shows the overall consciousness in this world, money goes over quality, life's and absolute everything else. thank you america for showing us the way and we idiots follow being as ass dumb.
:) well, it may be america's fault a little, but it is definitely rooted in the triad of competing concerns that include "time to market", "cost vs. value" and "product quality".

Taking any of these to the extreme is going to imbalance the final product: you can spend tons of time on quality assurance and release a quality product that is outmoded by the time it gets to market. You can be really cheap with your costs and come up with a product that is crappy, but you still make money. You can rush your product to market and end up having quality issues.

If your product is upgraded annually with new features, each upgrade accretes more code even if it is well managed, which means more things that can go wrong. It stand to reason that if you accrete less code per release, you ensure that your quality cycle is more controlled, but you end up with fewer features.

So you have to plan to include the features that provide the best cost vs. value and ascertain the impact on the quality cycle for each release.
very well put and true.

i am also happy that you are not offended in person, well i said also we are as dumb and blind as you guys, because the rest of the world still follows you way to much... i mean i just see how much our (german) products in general suffered over the last 20 years... from that money earning craze... outsourcing into cheap production countries, etc. but luckily some slowly come back because they experienced a shot into the own foot, otherwise of course i agree about the balance... and the factor money is important, but can only do good if it is in balance with other issues, such as quality, and the well being of peoples life's.

cheers and a happy new year :wink:
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Machinesworking
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:43 pm

All this already happened with Logic.
Logic did not become more stable by being Mac only in my experience.
4.7 was solid as hell, 5 (first version after buy out) was so so.
6 was OK, unless you used AU plug ins as developers and Apple had not figured out AU yet.
(BTW this was a HUGE PR blunder on Apples part, developers pretty much are still sore that Apple started messing with AU spec while they were trying to code for AU) 7 sucked for some of us, crashed all the time etc. 8 was good, but 9 has some issues from what I can tell.
Fruity Loops, Sonar, Digital Performer, Logic, all are pretty stable single platform DAWs but not bug free.

My method of operation now is to be one version behind, get the last, most stable version and don't be tempted by new features.
Not the best method for developers, but I have to have some sanity with this.

Machinesworking
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:53 pm

SubFunk wrote: well i said also we are as dumb and blind as you guys, because the rest of the world still follows you way to much... i mean i just see how much our (german) products in general suffered over the last 20 years... from that money earning craze... outsourcing into cheap production countries, etc. but luckily some slowly come back because they experienced a shot into the own foot, otherwise of course i agree about the balance... and the factor money is important, but can only do good if it is in balance with other issues, such as quality, and the well being of peoples life's.
Greed is not an American invention, we're just really good at it. :mrgreen:
Outsourcing is the problem for sure, but not because other countries have poor worker quality etc. but because a company outsources to save money, which means quality control is not a priority, or is put on a tight budget etc. and the workers are earning 1/8 at most of what a german or american worker earns. I can guarantee you that I will do a much better job for a living wage than for a wage that only allows survival.

I do recognize that if I buy a product of almost any kind made in the USA, France, UK or Germany etc. the quality is higher, that's a reflection of the working class in those countries demanding a living wage. Problem is in places like China, Mexico and Malaysia they screw the workers, and use fear of losing their job etc. to make them work harder, not a good motivator.

arafel
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by arafel » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:54 pm

Machinesworking wrote: My method of operation now is to be one version behind, get the last, most stable version and don't be tempted by new features.
Not the best method for developers, but I have to have some sanity with this.
+1. Dont fix what aint broke. Especially when you have a system that works.
Still rockin Live 8.05!
2.8ghz Quad PowerMac, Fa-66 using optical link, Live 9.72, Remote25, Maschine, Samson 65a.

ethios4
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by ethios4 » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:58 pm

If a platform was to be dropped, it seems like the problematic one should get the boot. :D
No problems here on my i7 windows 7 machine. I sure am glad to have a PC! ;)

FLaKes
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by FLaKes » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:04 pm

If it was Mac only then I would never had gotteb to know Ableton live, and I would probably be using cubase or acid or something like that...

julienb
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by julienb » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:05 pm

ahah

NO !!!!!!!!!!!
what could I do if it was the case ?!?!?!

:lol:

LoopStationZebra
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by LoopStationZebra » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:08 pm

Only here could a Mac only platform request turn into an economics discussion with the usual de rigeur jab at America tossed in for good measure.

:lol:
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

julienb
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by julienb » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:10 pm

ethios4 wrote:If a platform was to be dropped, it seems like the problematic one should get the boot. :D
No problems here on my i7 windows 7 machine. I sure am glad to have a PC! ;)
+1

NO problem with my i7/windows7 + my big big patch for my protodeck.

btw 8.1.1 or not 8.1.1 ....... ?
I'm 8.1 for the moment!!!

timothyallan
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by timothyallan » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:13 pm

it would just work

ethios4
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by ethios4 » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:14 pm

Just loaded up 8.1.1....no problems so far....feeling anxious though...

Machinesworking
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:20 pm

julienb wrote:
ethios4 wrote:If a platform was to be dropped, it seems like the problematic one should get the boot. :D
No problems here on my i7 windows 7 machine. I sure am glad to have a PC! ;)
+1

NO problem with my i7/windows7 + my big big patch for my protodeck.
Oh jesus guys? 3dot uses a freaking PC! :P
Really, if you're going to claim mr poopy pants platform royalty status, at least make sure the person you're offering a raspberry to isn't on your platform! :lol: :lol: :lol:

3dot...
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Re: I wish Live was MAC ONLY!

Post by 3dot... » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:27 pm

I'm a PC user... I have no gripes with windows as I prefer it to MAC OSs interface..
and for the most parts (when not using live) ...it's very stable!

but the computer is just a means to make music..
a reference "safe" system would be all that I need...
at this point I'm neck deep into it
...so switching to any box for the sake of stability would be the way to go...not that there's anything wrong with my system mind you
(this is theoretical: as far as I understand... Live is buggy on both platforms.)

I agree that OSs are 'moving targets' but they don't move that much...
I don't think programming paradigms have changed so much over the last 5 years..
Apple/Msft have to make life easy for outside developers and support their own platform
I mean Vista was considered a bad OS... but it wasn't bad in Live7/8 standards
(it was functional)
there's no bugless software ..I know... they are complex system...
but THERE IS good programming...not just good design...
the implementation has to be correct..
we are clients not test subjects...

I just want them to point me to :
1. a computer
2. an os for the computer
3. an audio interface
4. a graphics card

and say : "this system works like a charm..
it's been tested...benchmarked and is fully compatible with Live"

as for greed...it's one of the vices...a part of the human condition...
globally...
suspicion also...
trust is a serious matter...

anyways...
as we speak Live crashed on my laptop while changing buffer size..

have a great week ! :mrgreen:
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