You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

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shai
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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by shai » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:20 am

bosonHavoc wrote:
Machinate wrote:thankfully I'm vegan because my stomach can't handle all that other crud anymore... which means a burger is still a great thing for me, taste-wise - These days it's a veggie burger for me. I like those even more than a well-made hamburger, which was a really pleasant surprise!
portabella burger is the bomtastic!
hamburger doesn't taste much like meat these days anyway!
i also had a very juicy vegan-burger yesterday. excellent one.

LoopStationZebra
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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by LoopStationZebra » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:44 am

bosonHavoc wrote:
Machinate wrote:thankfully I'm vegan because my stomach can't handle all that other crud anymore... which means a burger is still a great thing for me, taste-wise - These days it's a veggie burger for me. I like those even more than a well-made hamburger, which was a really pleasant surprise!
portabella burger is the bomtastic!

Please tell me that you, living in the same town as Matt's El Rancho, aren't a friggin vegetarian....

:?:

lol
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

Homebelly
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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by Homebelly » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:11 am

Baron von Case wrote:I consume an incredible amount of aspartame (Equal) from Diet Coke and I can tell you honestly, having done a lot of research on the subject, that I seriously doubt it leads to any of the terrible things "they" say it does. Granted it is a synthetic chemical, you're not injecting it directly into your veins (are you?), so it's irrational to fear it on that basis. By the time it reaches your bloodstream, aspartame breaks down into the same components found in fruit and starches. So for all purposes, it's pretty natural at the point that counts.

I think, based on the FDA's track record, that if there was any real risk whatsoever, they'd pull it immediately off the market. They're crazy on the ball when it comes to that stuff.

Sadly most of the research on the subject is funded BY Nutrasweet and Equal, so there's a decent chance that if the results came back negative, they wouldn't publish them. But based on what I understand of the chemistry (I won't be obnoxious and list off whatever credentials I have), it's really not as scary as the panicked conspiracy theorists are making it out to be.

You're going to eat either sugar or a substitute (unless you have the will-power of a god), so why not steer clear of diabetes and go with something they've not conclusively found to be dangerous rather than something we've known for centuries will fuck up your health?
Its quite Ironic that aspartame is one of the most tested food additives on the market.
Although some of the tests and trials have been paid for by it's various patent holders over the years, including Monsanto, a fact which is probably one of the main contributing factors to the many myths surrounding aspartame, the important ones have been run by many government agencies in many countries. Although it is true that aspartame has been banned in some countries, it has not been banned based on scientific advice alone. In most cases it has been banned voluntarily on a commercial level by manufactures, suppliers and retailers as a response to consumer pressure based on misinterpreted or often spurious evidence published in the popular media or, more recently, regurgitated on the inter-net.
Lots of this evidence, as well as other reasonings to not eat certain other foods, are based on tests done on rats that will often lead to cancer in those rats. These results are then published out side of the review system and are written up in the popular media as being conclusive. The only conclusive result that comes from animal testing in these examples is that this things can course cancer in rats. People are not rats, peoples digestive and metabolic systems work a lot differently to rats, rats do a lot of things that might cause illness in people, and the same is also true the other way round. At this point i will point out that i don't particularly like any of the aspartame derivatives or branded varieties for the very simple reason that i don't like the flavor.

Sugar also gets a bad rap.
And rightly so in a lot of cases, not because it is intrinsically bad for us, but just because we eat way to much of it.
Sugar does not cause diabetes. Life style and over all diet can help develop type 2 diabetes, after that there are many other contributing factors.
Wether or not you are susceptible to developing T2 Diabetes is based primarilyon your calorie intake and exercise.
Most people get their calories from carbohydrates, in most cases these carbohydrates come from starch.
The most common form of starch is potatoes and bread.

I could easily turn this in to a rant.
Having an informed understanding of these subjects is an important part of my day job.
I'm no expert, but i do have enough understanding to be able to hold a conversation with people who are as well as be able to read materials supplied and understand if they are valuable or not. Most of the information passed on by "nutrionalists" such as the guy running the mercola site, is most often just plain up and down "quackery".

My best advice, for what its worth :wink:, learn what all of the macro-nutriants do and why we need them.
Don't get lost in the small parts, for example it is not important to understand what D3 or B5 do by them selves, there is very little conclusive evidence that any single Vitamin or chemical is a magic bullet that targets a single function in the human body.
Most importantly, eat what ever you want, but make sure it has a wide variety of types or sources of nutrients.
If you don't want to eat meat, or any animal products for that matter, thats fine, but make sure you don't just eat from a single source as the basis of your diet. You should eat from all of the vegetable food groups including roots, stems, leaves, seeds, and flowers. The key to a good diet and consistent nutrition is variety and balance of the macro-nutriants, both on the plate and in general, along side a healthy balanced general life style where you avoid stress or to much alcohol and where smoking is avoided.
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3dot...
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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by 3dot... » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:31 am

JUST.DON'T.OVER.EAT

I don't think a person should not eat what he enjoys... food is one of the joys of life.
just like anything in life...you need to know your portions...er... limits..
(also the size of you stomach)
all the rest is just common sense...

to me ... these are some stuff that do make a big difference:

ALWAYS eat fresh foods (nothing from the freezer) ...this includes fish and meat... no frozen stuff..
if you're a meat eater...limit meat consumption to 1 portion...max. 3 times a week..
eat 3 meals a day at regular times ...one has to be cooked..(great for your metabolism...)
eat FRESH vegetables every day...plus 2 FRESH fruits...
try to have at least one serious physical activity EVERY day... like a long walk/jog/cycle

I think much of the 'health'/organic/supplement market/craze is a hoax... I'm not buying it..
illnesses will not pass over you if you don't use sugar... or don't
and eventually you're gonna die... maybe tomorrow or when you're old and wrinkled...

I'll stop eating sugar if my doctor tells me I need to... or if I feel the need to myself
so far ...my blood tests are 100%
and I don't see the human race decreasing in numbers... plus...life expectancy is growing steadily and globally...

so... go get some of your mom's greasy home cooking... maybe eat some ice-cream afterwards on the walk home...
enjoy life..
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Homebelly
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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by Homebelly » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:04 am

3dot... wrote:J
eat 3 meals a day at regular times ...one has to be cooked..(great for your metabolism...)
There is a lot of evidence that suggests we should be eating smaller portions more often.
So, instead of three large meals a day, eat six or seven smaller meals with the calories spread out over a day.
The danger with eating less often is that your metabolism slows down and your body stores the energy as fat.
This is sometimes called the "Feast or famine reflex"


What is wrong with the freezer?
The only down side of frozen food is that the water in the cells expands and breaks down the cell walls
so that when the food is thawed some of the water soluble vitamins are lost.
On the other hand, the same process can break down some of the tougher fiber or cellulose and free up nutrition that would other wise not
be available normally.
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3dot...
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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by 3dot... » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:36 am

Homebelly wrote:
What is wrong with the freezer?
...I think it's more of a trust issue.. and also a matter of taste...
I trust my taste and sense of smell.. so I usually know what's 'good for me'...
I can pretty much taste fresh from frozen... and that's enough ..
..I don't use microwaves either..for the same wacky reasons
also...it seems quite foolish for me to freeze stuff as I eat daily...and food is a pleanty..
so why not buy fresh goods (vegs/fruit/bread/cheeses and meat)
every 2-3 days...and make my own meals?
if I don't have time I'll eat out
... but I'm gonna eat decent... even if it costs me a bit more $...
I value a good meal very much..and so does my body...

I'm not lecturing on good health.. that'd be foolish as I'm a smoker..
and do not lead such a healthy lifestyle..
just common sense ..
and things that for me make a big difference...

I still feel healthy and in shape.. but hey I'm only 30yo..
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3dot...
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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by 3dot... » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:40 am

on the otherend I CAN'T taste the difference between organic and non-organic goods...
in most cases non-organic look better and taste better..
so I call BS on the whole organic INDUSTRY
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Homebelly
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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by Homebelly » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:16 am

3dot... wrote:on the otherend I CAN'T taste the difference between organic and non-organic goods...
in most cases non-organic look better and taste better..
so I call BS on the whole organic INDUSTRY
I'm sure this one is gonna open up a can of worms,,, no pun intended.
From an analytical point of view, the difference in the nutritional quality of organic as apposed to non-organicaly grown food is marginal at best.
This is usually based on the fact that organic food is often sold closer to source than n on-organic food and so it has had less time to lose some of the nutrients through leeching. However, the amounts lost are negligible and not worth the extra monetary cost.
However, there is a lot to be said about the benefits of organically grown food from the perspective of the environment and soil health.
In this regard i am a huge proponent of organically grown food and i am a firm believer that if more people buy it and create a bigger demand then the costs will drop accordingly. There is a down side to this though, and that is that 100% organic farming, especially where fruit and vegetables are concerned, can not produce the same amounts of food that we expect. There is also the conundrum that not all "Organically produced goods" are created equal. There are no internationally recognized standards as to what "Organic" really is. Some "Territories" agree on principle, Australia and New Zealand for example have a shared standard. In the US it becomes even more problematic because even though there is a legal definition, its implementation is left mostly to trust all along the processing chain. What this means is that even though the farmer might be scrupulous, that doesn't mean the packaging or distribution company isn't adding non-organicaly grown variants into the final product.

It is my opinion that there needs to be a lot more discussion and education into organics, and nutrition as a whole.
Organic farming and supply could work a lot better and the amounts of food it can produce would be more that adequate if we where better informed about how much food we should be eating. I would hazard a guess that most of us buy way to much food. Thats not to say we eat it all, a lot of the food produced gets thrown out at its sell by date, I'm a big fan of the "Dumpster-tarian" philosophy.
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3dot...
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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by 3dot... » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:30 am

it is true that through organic farming we can maybe achieve more of a commune type food economy...
which would be better for everyone...
but..
realistically .. I don't see that happening anytime soon..
see.. the problem with a 'commune' is that the beautiful ideal is eventually totally forsaken and stepped upon by the human condition...

as for education ... it is important and I believe it all starts there...
we can only attempt to make a change in the long run..
and imo the organic industry will have no viability in the long-run...
as the population continues to grow and there are more mouths to feed...
(...we're not really doing a good jobs today in feeding the hungry mouths of the world...)

bottom line. organic foods makes less produce. the end product is not necessarily better.
hence. no viability except selling you a dream tomato for double/triple the price.
that's what makes you feel better... believing it is.
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bosonHavoc
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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by bosonHavoc » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:31 am

LoopStationZebra wrote:
bosonHavoc wrote:
Machinate wrote:thankfully I'm vegan because my stomach can't handle all that other crud anymore... which means a burger is still a great thing for me, taste-wise - These days it's a veggie burger for me. I like those even more than a well-made hamburger, which was a really pleasant surprise!
portabella burger is the bomtastic!

Please tell me that you, living in the same town as Matt's El Rancho, aren't a friggin vegetarian....

:?:

lol
i'm a raw foodist at home (most of the time)
my girl and i do indulge but its a treat and not a staple..
i have to say i like my diet allot..
i still eat what i want.. i prepare great meals..
my girl looks hot, i feel great, and i get to have steak and pizza when i want it :)

i started the mostly raw food thing in may and within three months i dropped to 200 pounds from 250 pounds, i'm 6'5" i ride a bike most of the time and i pedicab for a living..
when i eat mostly raw i feel great.

i stopped eating processed foods a long time before i went mostly raw too.

bosonHavoc
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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by bosonHavoc » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:47 am

3dot... wrote:it is true that through organic farming we can maybe achieve more of a commune type food economy...
which would be better for everyone...
but..
realistically .. I don't see that happening anytime soon..
see.. the problem with a 'commune' is that the beautiful ideal is eventually totally forsaken and stepped upon by the human condition...

as for education ... it is important and I believe it all starts there...
we can only attempt to make a change in the long run..
and imo the organic industry will have no viability in the long-run...
as the population continues to grow and there are more mouths to feed...
(...we're not really doing a good jobs today in feeding the hungry mouths of the world...)

bottom line. organic foods makes less produce. the end product is not necessarily better.
hence. no viability except selling you a dream tomato for double/triple the price.
that's what makes you feel better... believing it is.
you see i don't know about all that..

organic farming is better for the environment, the soil, and health.

studies can be made to prove or disprove anything but
..organic methods could produce enough food on a global per capita basis to sustain the current human population, and potentially an even larger population, without increasing the agricultural land base. (from the abstract)

The researchers also found that while in developed countries, organic systems on average produce 92% of the yield produced by conventional agriculture, organic systems produce 80% more than conventional farms in developing countries, because the materials needed for organic farming are more accessible than synthetic farming materials to farmers in some poor countries. On the other hand, communities that lack sufficient manure to replenish soils would struggle with organic farming, and the soil would degrade rapidly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_food

i could dig deeper but honestly i don't really trust anyone lol so who the hell really knows...
i just know i don't like to eat chemicals.. so i prefer food that i grow or that i get from a local farm.... but i do shop at the grocery store too..

one problem is the more you eat organic food the more you notice either the pesticides or how bland non organic food tastes.

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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:12 am

knotkranky wrote: Propaganda? You think the FDA is your friend when it comes to food? :roll:
And yes, i'm well more aware than you think Mr. ManBoobs. Estrogen is a matter of quantity isn't it?
Homeopathic menopause pills are made from soy you know.
Right, again, milk is chock full of estrogen, it's how they keep them producing such large amounts.
There was a case in South America where farmers were not regulated on the amount they could feed the cows. 3 year old girls were growing breasts, so were 10 year old boys. So exactly how many cases world wide have we had of men growing boobs because if high soy diets?
Legumes in general are hard on the body, this is true, and tempeh is better for you etc. People have amazingly fucked up concerns when it comes to health, all kinds of shit is fed to people about it. Here's a simple idea on diet, the closer to nature and less preparation a food takes, in general the better that food is for you. How many times in your life have you heard a doctor tell you to cut down on fresh fruits and vegetables? Why as soon as I can afford it, I'm going raw again, tofu isn't a concern then is it?

The rest is filler, and the more cooked and processed it is, the less nutritional value it has for you. This applies to soy, meat, dairy, etc. and at this point in time, meat and dairy are, and probably will be the main reasons for obesity and health problems in the west. The occasional out of balance diet hippy won't change that.

Machinesworking
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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:27 am

3dot... wrote:it is true that through organic farming we can maybe achieve more of a commune type food economy...
which would be better for everyone...
but..
realistically .. I don't see that happening anytime soon..
see.. the problem with a 'commune' is that the beautiful ideal is eventually totally forsaken and stepped upon by the human condition...

as for education ... it is important and I believe it all starts there...
we can only attempt to make a change in the long run..
and imo the organic industry will have no viability in the long-run...
as the population continues to grow and there are more mouths to feed...
(...we're not really doing a good jobs today in feeding the hungry mouths of the world...)

bottom line. organic foods makes less produce. the end product is not necessarily better.
hence. no viability except selling you a dream tomato for double/triple the price.
that's what makes you feel better... believing it is.
Wow? 3dot you haven't really done any research on organic food have you?
Not at all trying to mock you, but there are so many things wrong with this post I don't know where to start?
Basically educate yourself, on communes and on organic produce. Something like twice the nutritional value in organic foods over non. It's simply really, you use healthy living dirt over dust with chemicals in it and you're going to produce a healthier and more nutritious plant. If you get the kinds of grocery stores we have here in Seattle you see the difference, it's striking really, and farmers say it's easier on the land, just more labor intensive, and organic farmers tend to pay their workers living wages! So feed and gainfully employing the world wouldn't be any harder with organic, it's just that most people are cheap and kind of stupid. They'll spend $500+ a month on a car, but they won't spend 25¢ more on a healthier apple.
Shit you live in Israel right? land of communal farming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz
5% is still higher than most places. 8)

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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by knotkranky » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:38 am

Machinesworking wrote:
knotkranky wrote: Propaganda? You think the FDA is your friend when it comes to food? :roll:
And yes, i'm well more aware than you think Mr. ManBoobs. Estrogen is a matter of quantity isn't it?
Homeopathic menopause pills are made from soy you know.
Right, again, milk is chock full of estrogen, it's how they keep them producing such large amounts.
There was a case in South America where farmers were not regulated on the amount they could feed the cows. 3 year old girls were growing breasts, so were 10 year old boys. So exactly how many cases world wide have we had of men growing boobs because if high soy diets?
Legumes in general are hard on the body, this is true, and tempeh is better for you etc. People have amazingly fucked up concerns when it comes to health, all kinds of shit is fed to people about it. Here's a simple idea on diet, the closer to nature and less preparation a food takes, in general the better that food is for you. How many times in your life have you heard a doctor tell you to cut down on fresh fruits and vegetables? Why as soon as I can afford it, I'm going raw again, tofu isn't a concern then is it?

The rest is filler, and the more cooked and processed it is, the less nutritional value it has for you. This applies to soy, meat, dairy, etc. and at this point in time, meat and dairy are, and probably will be the main reasons for obesity and health problems in the west. The occasional out of balance diet hippy won't change that.
Complete agreement.

I'm on no dairy right now, but when I do it's goat products only.

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Re: You guys know I hate off topic threads but Nutrition??

Post by Homebelly » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:45 am

Machinesworking wrote: Something like twice the nutritional value in organic foods over non.
I'd like to see where you got this information from.

Your other point about cost is right on.
To use another analogy, when i was a chef i would cost out a recipe always knowing i had a ceiling i couldn't go past.
Basically, every thing had to be under $35NZ, while at the same time the restaurant was selling $60 or $70 bottles of wine
and my customers were wearing $500 designer jeans and driving $100.000 cars.
I used to look out at these people and wonder where it had all gone wrong.


I'm gonna hold my tongue on the raw food philosophy :wink:
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