Automap - Kill me now!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
The Northern Contingent
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by The Northern Contingent » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:56 pm

glitchrock-buddha wrote:90% of posts that talk about automap not working properly are from people who simply have not read the short manual section on DAW setup and haven't set the necessary ports in Ableton's preferences, or from people who don't understand the different between automap universal and Ableton's instant mapping (Sometimes called 'automap' as well which is confusing). Not saying that's the case with the OP though, that might have been a needed update. However I used the mkII normally before the latest beta so I didn't understand that improvement.

I've had a couple problems which eventually got fixed and there are a couple things I don't like about how it works now (like only one lcd value updating at a time), but generally it has been the best hardware control of software I've ever seen, besides Maschine.

However, I recently got an SL25 mkII for home (I keep my SL61 mkI at the studio), and while there are some things I like about it, like the new pads and the smooth encoders with LED rings), there are equally as many things I don't like about it. Hate that they took away a screen. And I don't like the touch sensitivty much, it's annoying. But I think I can turn that off... haven't tried. My real problem is that the templates I made on the SL mkI don't load properly on the mkII. Parameters are shifted or missing, so I don't know what's up with that. I've emailed support so hopefully they send a sensible solution or fix it. I'm not about to remake all my templates.

I wish I could just have the smooth encoders with LED rings from the mkII on the mkI, but oh well. Still love my 61mkI. Mix it with Kore, and the two together are awesome.
Well, I have to say that I spent hours going through the bloody Automap manual, watching the endless tutorials on the Novation website and downloading the trickle of premade template from the website. After several days still not really understanding what the hell was going on, I suddenly realised I was once again spending all my free time not making any music whatsoever. And this from a product whose whole point is supposedly to save time. I'm glad to see the back of it unfortunately - I wish I'd saved my money.

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:53 am

The Northern Contingent wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:90% of posts that talk about automap not working properly are from people who simply have not read the short manual section on DAW setup and haven't set the necessary ports in Ableton's preferences, or from people who don't understand the different between automap universal and Ableton's instant mapping (Sometimes called 'automap' as well which is confusing). Not saying that's the case with the OP though, that might have been a needed update. However I used the mkII normally before the latest beta so I didn't understand that improvement.

I've had a couple problems which eventually got fixed and there are a couple things I don't like about how it works now (like only one lcd value updating at a time), but generally it has been the best hardware control of software I've ever seen, besides Maschine.

However, I recently got an SL25 mkII for home (I keep my SL61 mkI at the studio), and while there are some things I like about it, like the new pads and the smooth encoders with LED rings), there are equally as many things I don't like about it. Hate that they took away a screen. And I don't like the touch sensitivty much, it's annoying. But I think I can turn that off... haven't tried. My real problem is that the templates I made on the SL mkI don't load properly on the mkII. Parameters are shifted or missing, so I don't know what's up with that. I've emailed support so hopefully they send a sensible solution or fix it. I'm not about to remake all my templates.

I wish I could just have the smooth encoders with LED rings from the mkII on the mkI, but oh well. Still love my 61mkI. Mix it with Kore, and the two together are awesome.
Well, I have to say that I spent hours going through the bloody Automap manual, watching the endless tutorials on the Novation website and downloading the trickle of premade template from the website. After several days still not really understanding what the hell was going on, I suddenly realised I was once again spending all my free time not making any music whatsoever. And this from a product whose whole point is supposedly to save time. I'm glad to see the back of it unfortunately - I wish I'd saved my money.
The thing is, which manual did you go through? There's the Novation SL manual, the DAW setup guides and the automap universal manuals. You might have been looking in the wrong place. The most important things to get things working right are in the DAW setup guide, which show what preferences and ports to use for what.
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Android Bishop
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by Android Bishop » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:58 am

glitchrock-buddha wrote:90% of posts that talk about automap not working properly are from people who simply have not read the short manual section on DAW setup and haven't set the necessary ports in Ableton's preferences, or from people who don't understand the different between automap universal and Ableton's instant mapping (Sometimes called 'automap' as well which is confusing). Not saying that's the case with the OP though, that might have been a needed update. However I used the mkII normally before the latest beta so I didn't understand that improvement.

I've had a couple problems which eventually got fixed and there are a couple things I don't like about how it works now (like only one lcd value updating at a time), but generally it has been the best hardware control of software I've ever seen, besides Maschine.

However, I recently got an SL25 mkII for home (I keep my SL61 mkI at the studio), and while there are some things I like about it, like the new pads and the smooth encoders with LED rings), there are equally as many things I don't like about it. Hate that they took away a screen. And I don't like the touch sensitivty much, it's annoying. But I think I can turn that off... haven't tried. My real problem is that the templates I made on the SL mkI don't load properly on the mkII. Parameters are shifted or missing, so I don't know what's up with that. I've emailed support so hopefully they send a sensible solution or fix it. I'm not about to remake all my templates.

I wish I could just have the smooth encoders with LED rings from the mkII on the mkI, but oh well. Still love my 61mkI. Mix it with Kore, and the two together are awesome.
quoted for truth. automap is awesome, just learn how it works and you'll wonder how you ever lived without it (i like being able to customize my entire controller to map itself over infinite pages for a single plugin, be able to switch between all the plugins in my set, and have those mappings automatically load up every time I load the plugin).

and yes, you can disable touch sensitivity. its nice for mapping but annoying otherwise.

rikhyray
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by rikhyray » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:03 am

Maybe Automap is the only case where RTFM do more damage than good. All those manuals and videos didnt help me at all, once I gave them up and started setting using my own senses have no problems, it let me set anything I want in couple of minutes, sometimes seconds.
The name confusion-Automap, Automap Universal, Automap Classic, Automap Pro...can surely drive people nuts. After 2 years using SL only in that classic mode (for Live),mainly because like others I felt it is either insane app. or can drive people mad, finally decided to try Automap Pro and it is fabulous, once you know how to use it. SL and Launchpad can work without it, and I use them so but with Automap you get almost unlimited options.
Once discovered how well it works with SL and LP, got Nocturn too, which I use not only with Live and Traktor but various other also non audio softwares,like video editors .
Couple of months ago heard , unofficially, from a competitor that they are negotiating with Novation to get Automap license for their products, since it is better and cheaper than Bomes.
I used for shorter or longer nearly all better controllers of Akai, Edirol, M audio, Korg etc none of those and their editors work so easily and quickly like Automap. Focusrite has some of the smartest people in this industry and it started to show, Ableton finally found right partner.
It is definitely worth trying to learn how to use Automap.

Swordfish
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by Swordfish » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:25 am

After restarting, and installing Live 8.1 things are definitely playing better. There is no lag when loading plugins...and things are relatively stable. Its pretty stupid that you have to "configure" the plugin to automate it... I still havent worked out how to make Live plugins work properly....the mapping are always spread badly.

And I have to say: I also spent hours and hours trawling the internet for manuals and info - and I was still confused (maybe more so) and Ive been doing this stuff a long time. I think novation could do a much better job of explaining it for Live users and CLEARLY stating the limitations of Automap with Live, especially as mine shipped with a copy of Live. You have to literally scour these forums to get any real info, rather than have it easily accessible on the Novation site where it should be.

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:13 am

rikhyray wrote: Focusrite has some of the smartest people in this industry and it started to show, Ableton finally found right partner.
Now if only Ableton would actually support automap universal like everyone else! :lol:
But nooo, Ableton has to have it's own special template, which blows. The other DAWs like Logic, Pro Tools, Cubase etc. etc. all use Host automap in Automap Universal which lets the whole set of controls be used for either mixer or instrument/effect control. Ableton won't do the same for some crazy reason. They use their won 'automap', where half the sliders are used for levels, pans, sends etc. and only those 8 encoders are for selected device control. Not a very useful setup. Ok for some things, but not as good as the DAWs using automap universal.
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glitchrock-buddha
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:15 am

Swordfish wrote: Its pretty stupid that you have to "configure" the plugin to automate it... I still havent worked out how to make Live plugins work properly....the mapping are always spread badly.
It does suck that you can't change the mapping of the ableton devices. stinks. you would be able to if Ableton supported automap universal like the other DAWs.

Plug-in configuration however is a god-send. It means you can automate anything and change the order of parameters. And it's not much extra work, you just have to hit the configure button before recording automation if it's a new control.
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The Northern Contingent
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by The Northern Contingent » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:50 am

glitchrock-buddha wrote:
The thing is, which manual did you go through? There's the Novation SL manual, the DAW setup guides and the automap universal manuals. You might have been looking in the wrong place. The most important things to get things working right are in the DAW setup guide, which show what preferences and ports to use for what.
Doesn't it strike you as a little absurd that there are so many guides to Automap? I think Novation have got a good product potentially - I just think they need to do a much better job of explaining how it works (starting with consolidating everything into one simple manual). As others have said above as well, the different modes of Automap are just weird.

Don't get me wrong, Automap must obviously be great once you can get your head round it. I've still got it installed on my system to keep tinkering with the iPhone app. My point is that it is a program designed for the sole purpose of saving time. So why do I spend so much time working out how it works????

Android Bishop
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by Android Bishop » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:48 pm

The Northern Contingent wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
The thing is, which manual did you go through? There's the Novation SL manual, the DAW setup guides and the automap universal manuals. You might have been looking in the wrong place. The most important things to get things working right are in the DAW setup guide, which show what preferences and ports to use for what.
Doesn't it strike you as a little absurd that there are so many guides to Automap? I think Novation have got a good product potentially - I just think they need to do a much better job of explaining how it works (starting with consolidating everything into one simple manual). As others have said above as well, the different modes of Automap are just weird.

Don't get me wrong, Automap must obviously be great once you can get your head round it. I've still got it installed on my system to keep tinkering with the iPhone app. My point is that it is a program designed for the sole purpose of saving time. So why do I spend so much time working out how it works????
its actually a good thing to have separate manuals, because each one deals specifically with particular components of the system. One manual is for your device, one manual is to deal with your DAW configuration, and the other deals specifically with the automap universal software. putting them all together in one file will probably just confuse people even more since I know damn well almost nobody reads through entire manuals

Paradigm X
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by Paradigm X » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:13 pm

Do you have latest automap installer from novations site, the earlier ones caused me probs but 3.4 seems much better. Im on PC fwiw but im sure the updates improves for both species...

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The Northern Contingent
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by The Northern Contingent » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:31 pm

Yes - I'm on 3.4. I know it is me not understanding the concepts well enough - hey ho. I won't loose any sleep over it. As I say, I've kept the software on my mac to have a tinkle via the iPhone. Does anyone have any simple starter points for a no hoper? I get Automap to latch onto VSTs OK, but it seems a bit temperamental with Ableton's instruments (I got this with the ReMOTE Mk2). Sometimes it saw Ableton's instruments, other times it didn't. Would the iPhone app even recognise these?

EDIT: By the way, just reading through some of my earlier posts and I sound like a prick. Sorry - I didn't mean to snap at anyone here, just frustrated with the software. :oops:

stutter
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by stutter » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:48 pm

glitchrock-buddha wrote:I wish I could just have the smooth encoders with LED rings from the mkII on the mkI, but oh well. Still love my 61mkI. Mix it with Kore, and the two together are awesome.
I think I might write to Novation and ask if I can buy 8 of the smooth encoders from the Nocturn to replace into my Remote 61 - I can live without the LED rings (well, I'll have to), but the clicking annoys me too much.

I opened mine up and manually removed the detente clicker in each of the 8 encoders, but they're all a little bit looe now, and I think it'd be easier (on my patience) to replace them with fresh ones than fiddle endlessly with them.

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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:49 pm

I've never once had an SL not recognize an ableton instrument if it's set up properly and the blue hand is on the device. I don't know what other advice to offer other than find the Novation SL thread in tips and tricks. I think I posted a screen shot of how ableton's preferences should be set up.
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DerekC
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by DerekC » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:09 am

I've been using Automap (Pro) and an SL MK1 for a while now and I think they're great. You just need to take some time to learn the software. My only problem is that Ableton won't fully support Automap. Ableton's stance on the matter reminds me a little of the way Apple do things. Sure they make great products but they want everything on their terms even if it's at the expense of their loyal customers. It's unfortunate because full implementation of Automap works great and really improves the DAW's that support it. Ableton Automap is okay but that's as far as it goes - it's just okay. You are still tied to your computer keyboard and mouse and there are numerous controls on the SL that can only be mapped using midi-learn. I Just keep mine in Automap mode and stick to VST's instead of Ableton Instruments. At the moment I'm trying to set up a user channel within regular Automap mode. Then I want to use this channel for Mackie Control emulation so I have some control over Ableton without going to the Ableton Automap mode. Any one have any pointers on this? I have managed to get it working by itself to some extent but not with Automap still working for other VSTs. I'm thinking I might have to use IAC or something like that and send the midi out a separate virtual port and then back into Ableton.

starving student
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Re: Automap - Kill me now!

Post by starving student » Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:09 am

can you use automap with controllers that are not made by Novation?

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