Keynote or State of the Union...

[deva]

Deva said:


"That is his job, to defuse and misdirect public anger while the nation is looted by Wall Street and other big money interests. "

"Everything he has done has facilitated that theft while he talks against it to keep people hooked. It is an age old con game."

"Obama has crafted a health bill that will force every citizen to buy healthcare without any price checks. You have to buy and the company can charge whatever they want. It is the CEO's wet dream."

"Obama is still propagating the absurd comedy called the 'War on Terrorism' as justification for violating the rights of people all over the world, including killing whoever he wants."

And this is just your comments on the first page. You clearly make several claims about grand conspiracies. You have very clearly tied Obama into a conspiracy with big business and possibly the military. (As if every first year politics student doesnt know about the Military-Industrial complex) You also like throwing around the term "propaganda manipulation". Your very language implies some agent or agents doing this manipulation for their own ends against the public interest, as might be termed a grand conspiracy.

Youre pretty much just trolling at this point.

yup... you cannot actually defend your guy Obama so you call me a troll... powerful man, really powerful. I've stayed on topic and provided factual data to back up what I said. I notice you don't actually refute any of it.

It is not a grand conspiracy as if a single group of people plan everything out. There is a complex mix of conspiratorial aspects, self interest, opportunism, etc.

Ive never mentioned that Obama was my dude. Youre deliberately misrepresenting my argument, and you also change your argument every time a point is countered. You said 'propaganda manipulation', not me. Maybe you dont understand the meaning of the words youre using?

You also seem to mistake "Deva's unsubstantiated opinion" with "factual data". Facts have references.

I like it that you have passion for your beliefs, but this is weak sauce.

Since you brought him up, go read Manufacturing Consent by Chomsky... Manufacturing consent... hmmm... sure sounds conspiratorial...

I'm not sure what you are arguing about, but it seems to be some knee-jerk defense of Obama and the Democrats. Mostly you seem to be making attacks on me and saying nothing much else.

I provided information on Obamas voting record. For example... "In 2005, Obama joined Republicans in passing a law dubiously called the Class Action Fairness Act (CAFA)"... So you are saying this is my unsubstantiated opinion? Do you wish to refute that statement? Come on... How about the other statements on his voting record? Are you saying that Obama doesn't have a bigger military budget than Bush? That Obama doesn't support indefinite detentions?

It seems to me that you want to hold onto some illusion that the Democrats are trying to do something decent while at the same time you understand that they are owned by big money. It is a misplaced sense of loyalty.

[nylarch]

I love when people bring up Kucinich and Ron Paul as shining examples of what a politician should strive towards. I was just a kid but I lived in Cleveland, OH in the '70's when Kucinich ran the city straight into the ground in the name of fighting big business. He and Ron Paul live in the theoretical fringes where nothing bad happens b/c they will never actually be tasked with running anything.

Politics in a democracy is a big messy stinky set of compromises and deal making and that's the only way things get done when majority rules. Still probably the best system.

[oblique strategies]

it's like blaming the new kid on the block for your neighborhood being bad, what is it about obama that makes him so special compared to the folks that have done much worse for much longer?

It because people's expectations have not been met. These expectations were were based on:

1. What Obama was saying.

2. People were sick of the Bush admin.

3. People are ill-informed.

4. People have a willingness to 'believe' in things, without requiring any real evidence to support their belief.

5. People would rather blame Obama than acknowledge that they really aren't participating in their government to the extent that they should in order to effect change on their own.

[thelike5]

I love when people bring up Kucinich and Ron Paul as shining examples of what a politician should strive towards. I was just a kid but I lived in Cleveland, OH in the '70's when Kucinich ran the city straight into the ground in the name of fighting big business. He and Ron Paul live in the theoretical fringes where nothing bad happens b/c they will never actually be tasked with running anything.

Politics in a democracy is a big messy stinky set of compromises and deal making and that's the only way things get done when majority rules. Still probably the best system.

HAHAHAA! I live in Cleveland and have so all of my life. You are 100% correct regarding Kucinich. "The Boy Mayor" one time threw out the first pitch of an Indians game but he did so wearing a bulletproof jacket and had sharpshooters in the stands protecting him. He survived a recall vote less then a year in office by something like 200 votes out of 100,000 plus. Yeah, he refused to sell the electric company and nearly lost his life over it (the local mafia had attempted to kill him on multiple occasions due to the fact he wouldn't sell.) After he didn't sell it caused the city to go completely in default. Had Kucinich given in and sold it would have went against what he ran on. The logical thing to do would have been sell. Dennis ego was too large and we went broke. He almost got murdered but ended up doing well for himself and marrying a hot young redhead from England.

[nylarch]

ended up doing well for himself and marrying a hot young redhead from England.

which for a guy that looks like he does says a lot.

Actually I think fringe candidates are very important voices to be heard in democracy but be careful what you wish for. Mainstream candidates are mainstream b/c the majority happens to be mainstream pretty much by definition. Only time the whole nation pulls as one is when a national distaster or war pulls everyone together for a minute. Then back to business as usual which is what Obama is dealing with.

[starving student]

I'm from cleveland too yeah yeah, does the klan still have rallys out there?

[delicioso]

I'm surprised alot of you didn't wake up when he picked his administration.

The U.S. goes through one of it's biggest ecomonic downfalls and he decides the best thing is to fill his office with the who's who of Wall Street.

Did you not all look these guys up to see where they came from?

It's not surprising as most Americans probably don't give a fuck if not duped. All this shows is that Obama is the best thing the ruling elites could ever have done. The fact that they got a whole chunk of the population to be sold on HOPE and CHANGE and saw the historic election of an African American as the president means that they are able to do a lot more damage than Bush could ever do and people would still applaud as he receives the Nobel Peace prize. They even duped many of the radical left who normally wouldn't fall for this. Many have woken up though.

The basis of your country is fuckin fantastic, your forefathers fought for something that was worthwhile and they set it up well. You have a Bill of Rights which is more than I can say for my country. All this guy and his buddy want to do is fuck it up for the globalist bankers to take even more control.

One thing you can take away from this is Black, White, yellow, purple or whatever colour they are. They are still the same politicians you had before and they are still waiting to fuck you in anyway that you will allow them to.

The forefathers were slave owning white men. The revolutionary war resulted in the genocide of native americans because the British had drawn a line to prevent westward expansion into native territories. That line along with the vast majority of native american population were wiped out once the British lost.

[deva]

They even duped many of the radical left who normally wouldn't fall for this.

Unfortunately true... Well, at least I have gotten in some excellent 'I told you so's