Methods for incorporating Live into a DJ set?

hacktheplanet · Post by **hacktheplanet** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:46 am

What are your methods for beat matching with Live?

I've tried a few things, adjusting the tempo manually, tapping in a tempo and making slight adjustments, assigning the tempo to a MIDI fader, etc etc. It's never spot-on, and the last few times I tried to beatmatch Live met horrible results.

What is the easiest, most accurate method? Is there a plug in I can get that will detect the bpm on an input channel, and change Live's tempo accordingly?

I think it would be killer to have software that translates data between equipment like Rane Serato or Final Scratch and Live. That would be so cool... Being able to control your Live set with a record.

mcconaghy · Post by **mcconaghy** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 3:03 pm

Have you set the warp markers?

fsk · Post by **fsk** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:24 pm

The way in which I dj with live is pretty simple and I think its the same method everyone or most people use.

1: I basically select the tune I want
2: Go into an audio editor (soundforge) and cut the loop up to the beat, by this I mean I cut the sections out of the song I want with which I will be mixing and make sure they start at the begining of the bar and end at the end.
3: go into ableton, and once u put it into the mix it should be on the correct tempo.

Every so often some songs are in some strange timings, so u'll have to go over it with warp markers to make sure it picks up, read the ableton manual for info on warp markers.

I've done a 2 hour set recently, and had no problems.

I usually have 3/4 sections per song, the intro which I'll proabbaly mix in, the main sections and then the outro section which will porbabaly mix out. During all this add effects etc etc, sometimes mix 2 tunes together, like I mixed some detroit techno with some eurythmics

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:06 pm

assuming your tracks are warped, etc, everything is playing in sync... and now you just want a more streamlined way to control the master tempo for beatmatching....

best method that i have found is do a few bars of tapping to find an estimate of the tempo.

lets say its 135bpm.

go into arranger view, and assign the Master tempo in the Main channel as miminum 130bpm and maximum 140bpm. now asssign master tempo to a midi Knob or if you can - a reversed slider (drawbar style, down is more, up is less), this can mimmick a Technics pitch control. Hopefully you own a midi controller with knobs or sliders.

assigning 130 as mimimum and 140 as max is about +/- 4% of 135bpm.
now since i use an Evolution UC-33, the sliders are about half the size of the Technics' pitch control, so the response is very similar.

when i've defined the maximum/minimum values of the slider to be within 10bpms.. turning the knob or moving the slider results in anywhere from .06bpm to .12 bpm. That is to say i can turn a knob and go from 135.06 to 135.12 or to 135.18. The closer you define your maximum/minimum to each other - the more precise control you will have.

start live and ride the pitch as if it were a turntable. works like a charm. =D

hacktheplanet · Post by **hacktheplanet** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:14 am

Thanks for the tip! I'll give it a try later on tonight. If this works well enough for me, I may not have to buy one of those Redsound clock units, or a new DJ mixer with a MIDI out. Oh yeah, sorry if I wasn't totally clear in my first post, I'm trying to sync Live with a DJ set, or any incoming audio signal. One quick question, when you say to reverse the slider, is there an option in Live for that, or should I find something in the device's software? The unit controlling the tempo will be an Akai MPD-16. It's got a nice little slider.

Ooh... is there perhaps a .vst plugin or some feature in Live that will read the BPMs of an incoming audio signal and generate a clock? That would be even better than an external unit or manual beatmatching.

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:28 am

No BPM software (automatic or tapping) I've ever seen is near accurate enough.

If I'm not mistaken, the pitch and modwheels of most keyboards are "high-resolution" MIDI. I think.

They are easy to knock off course, so wheels might not be the best solution, but they SHOULD be more accurate than a 128 rez knob or fader...

Adam Jay knows what he's talking about...

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:36 am

and to extend the method of mimmicking Technics pitch control.
thanks to the ucapps midibox platform, you could purchase a Technics 1200 M3D pitch slider/faceplate/and knob for about $50 total, and make a single midi'fied pitch controller for about $70.

i'll have an M3D pitch incorporated in the custom midi controller i recently designed.

xeb · Post by **xeb** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:06 pm

the_planet wrote:Redsound clock units

they're out of production.. there seems to be a few places still selling them in the states but they are selling old stock so it won't last forever. i've heard someone else on here saying they're not accurate enough and do funny pitch jumps from time to time

SinisterDexter · Post by **SinisterDexter** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:10 pm

AdamJay wrote:go into arranger view, and assign the Master tempo in the Main channel as miminum 130bpm and maximum 140bpm. now asssign master tempo to a midi Knob or if you can - a reversed slider (drawbar style, down is more, up is less), this can mimmick a Technics pitch control. Hopefully you own a midi controller with knobs or sliders.

Thanks for that AdamJay. After reading your post I headed for the Live manual to see what it said on the subject. It says almost nothing apart from at the bottom of page 145 where it briefly mentions setting a min and max value in arrangement mode.

Accurate tempo control in a live setting seems like an obvious and important requirement so hopefully this info will be easier to find in the next Live manual.

(Abletons - a hint, list this in the index under "Tempo - Constraining")

hacktheplanet · Post by **hacktheplanet** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:35 am

Thanks, AdamJay! Your instructions on how to constrain the tempo work perfectly. In fact it works so well, I don't think I'll need to buy an audio/midi sync unit.

I'm still wondering if there is a way to reverse the MIDI slider on the software end. I'm using the slider on an Akai MPD16.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:10 am

the_planet wrote: I'm still wondering if there is a way to reverse the MIDI slider on the software end. I'm using the slider on an Akai MPD16.

ah yes, that would be handy.
my evolution uc33 has a "drawbar" mode that allows all the sliders to be reversed, but i only want one to be reversed.

the Midi OX midi translation utility should allow you to reverse the values for just one slider. this is what i have been told, but i haven't done so myself. http://www.midiox.com/