Ableton HQ please read

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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jamief
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Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by jamief » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:44 am

cynetmedia wrote:
lark830 wrote:Wow! Just...Wow!!! It seems as though I got a lot of peoples knickers up in a bind by me mentioning my problems with Ableton Live 8.1.1 this weekend.

Let me chime in and respond to the fanboys on here and set the record straight. I shouldn't have to "prove" to anybody on here about my professionalism as an artist/musician, or whatever, and my technical prowess within my profession. Instead, let's just dismiss the problems I had no idea existed in Live, and focus on me "bitching about it" instead.

Just because I post a negative experience about using Ableton LIve, that automatically makes me an amateur and discredits me as an artist, or puts me in the category of not being, to quote Claude, "technically very savvy" i.e., STUPID?

Thanks again Claude for suggesting such a thing. Yep, it's personal now. :evil:

I'm not a fanboy of ANY software, because none of it is perfect. If it works, I say it works, if it doesn't, I say it doesn't. It's MY personal experience! Claude, and the other guys here who follow me on facebook, heard me complain about software for sure, but they failed to mention the fact that I said I LOVE using Traktor and Ableton, and that ALL software has problems. I embrace analog technology and digital technology together, and don't just talk it, I walk it. Ask me what I use in my studio, ask me what I use when I dj.

But, just for clarification sake, I'll give you my background. This is for those of you who don't know me, and those who THINK they know me (Claude Young). I'm actually shocked Claude, seeing what you posted about me, and what you think I do and don't know about studio gear, software, computers, etc...

Let's begin shall we? :lol:

I've been doing electronic music for almost 20 years. Nearly all of those years, I've owned a private commercial level studio when I lived in the Detroit area making Detroit Techno. My studio was featured in the well respected recording magazine EQ magazine. I still own, a high end home studio which includes a lot of really nice high end stuff, both hardware and software.

In addition to all of the hardware I owned over the years, I've used just as much software alongside my outboard gear. I've used too many to name, but my main software sequencer has been Logic, from the first version, when it was called Notator in 1990, up to the current version of Logic 9. I also used for years a fulll blown Pro Tools setup with 24 channels of Apogee AD8000 converters, which I don't use anymore. And tons of software synths, plug ins by various software companies. I also have dj software programs like, Serato, and Traktor, which I have an endorsement deal with NI.

This is not, by any stretch of the imagination, my first foray into using software efficiently in and out of the studio.

Before I did music, I was in the Air Force where I REPAIRED computers. I didn't just swap out PC boards, we had to troubleshoot down to the component level. That means I repaired, replaced, soldered resistors, IC chips, etc., on circuit boards.

So Mr. Young, before I read this thread, I was sure you knew I had more than just a passing, superficial knowledge of computers( "oh, that's the power button?") And that I know how to keep them running as efficiently as possible.

Since day one, just like you Claude, I've owned and used countless Mac desktops/laptops for music. And just like you, I religiously did and do maintenance routines by deleting (weekly, monthly, daily) scripts, repairing disk permissions, cleaning system and software caches, etc.) every few weeks on all of my macs with various utility programs, especially before I do shows or record important projects.

I also don't have all of the cpu hogging programs or processes running in the background that can wreak havoc in programs like Traktor, Ableton Live etc., by using screen savers, wifi, or anything not related to audio. Fragmenting I don't do. Never needed to, but apparently Claude is the go to authority on this, so I guess I will go against the whole Mac community and defragment my hard drives. (Dripping with ooey, gooey, sarcasm) :evil:

I also have more than enough delay compensation selected in Live, so as not to push the cpu too much.

In my situation, I had no problems with 8.1.1 until this weekend! So, there was no reason to visit the forums to see if my version of Live worked before this weekend. I travel the globe performing, mainly as a dj, for a living (4 million miles and counting), I make music for a living. I don't sit on forums judging and drawing conclusions about people, their technical savviness, and assess their abilities to work software. I use my free time, when I'm not traveling, working on music, forwarding my career, and enjoying my new life as a husband.

Since Claude is also from Detroit, and says he "knows" me, it's funny he didn't know that a lot of my best buddies whom he knows as well (Kevin Saunderson, Carl Craig, Derrick May, Stacey Pullen) asked me for technical advice when they had issues in their own studios with software and other issues all the time. Sorry to blown your negative, and less than cool assertion that I'm technically stupid.

Anyway, If it is known by the majority of users here that Ableton Live 8.1.1 isn't solid, and Ableton acknowledges it, why didn't they send out an email to it's customers using Live 8 to inform them of the major issues with the current version? If they did, I didn't get the email :cry: I have better things to do than to receive such an email, then STILL put together a show, then bitch and moan about it for being riddled with bugs.

It's true that I consider myself a geek, just like probably all of you. I visit all of music software company websites for updates, news, etc,. Some more than others. But, there are some users who don't! In my case, I had no reason to visit this particular section. As you guys know, Ableton automatically tells you when there is a software update available without hitting the site! Plus, I have tons of other gear/software vying for my attention too, other than Live. I'm a budding film/video gear nut, which has tons of sites too i visit!

Claude you should of thought a little bit before typing your "thoughts" especially when you said you hate to see people talk smack about software when it could be user error. Is there not a major problem with 8.1.1? Am I making it up? Did Ableton come out and acknowledge the issues? Crappy thing is, I am obviously the last person to know about it, but there ARE problems! LOL.

The situation was the same with Traktor a few months back when I had issues. Just like this scenario, there were documented bugs, NOT some crazy shizzy I made up to use as an opportunity to dog Native Instruments. After they updated the software, my specific issues, along with others who had the SAME issue, went away and it works perfectly so far.

When Live works without issues for me, I will give it praise to no end. But, I have issues with 8.1.1, regardless of whether or not Claude, or anyone here wants to acknowledge it, or better yet muffle my attempts of mentioning it, or discredit it.

Before the internet became the nucleus by which the majority of us get our information, you had to call support lines, and that could drive you crazy! They were really good with making you think you were the cause of ALL of your problems.

"Aaa, aaaa, APPLE!"

Oops, excuse me, I sneezed. :P

Of course some of the issues were user error, but every time? Uh, no...

Now, you can go online to a forum, software company website, or social website, post the issue, and see if others are having the same issue. If they are, they can help you by telling you what they did to rectify the issue, or at least put you on the path and get you up to speed on what's going on. That valuable insight can also be used to arm you when you DO contact support departments.

You can say, "look I see there are a bunch of people having the same issue, I've read about them online!"

I wouldn't change the ability to do that for anything. I could care less if people don't appreciate me keeping my issues to myself. You all find out what's going on through this forum, why? Because people TELL you about their negative experiences! If people didn't complain there would be no need for forums like this, in my view.

Anyway, to the problem I was having. And why I used a beta version...

I did a live show at a club called Fabric in London a few months back and it was fine...No crashes! The version I used then was 8.1.1

For some reason, as I put my show together starting last week I began to have crashes every now and then. As I progressed with the show it showed itself a little more. I didn't have a TON of effects, or a TON of synths running. In fact, my show only had 16 tracks going at the most, NO synths as they were rendered, with most of the effects rendered to each particular audio file. That was done specifically to not push my system.

My Laptop is a Macbook Pro 2.4 2 Duo, with 4GB memory, and a 7200 320 gig partitioned drive. It's not a slow laptop. For controllers, I used the Akai APC40, and the Euphonix MC Mix. Which is the same setup I had in London, which I used with no issues.

Apart from the few crashes, I experienced during the week leading up to the show, I was really satisfied with my set, prior to me leaving this weekend. I got on a plane to tweak stuff, add a little here and there, and it starts crashing constantly. It seemed like the more I did (low level stuff, like dragging and dropping clips into empty slots) the more it crashed. All of my songs were roughly at 127 bpm, so there was no need for the cpu to work hard.

By the time Friday night comes around, it's crashing constantly and I'm freaked that it will crash during my show. I go do a soundcheck and it was fine. I'm assuming it didn't crash because I wasn't doing any dragging and dropping? Just a guess. Anyway, the promoter knew about the crashes, because he is a Ableton Live user also. He knew the issues with Live 8.1.1

This is the first time I heard about issues with 8.1.1!

Because I have a background in repairing computers, I leaned on the knowledge I picked up from being a technician, and how we use to isolating problems, process of elimination, etc. So, I went back to the hotel, and starting from scratch by putting together a really sparse set with nowhere near as many files as I had in my full show.

When I performed onstage, it worked fine then crashed right the end.

I was happy to make it through the set. I was also glad that I could get back to the hotel, visit THIS forum and investigate it before my show Saturday night. Sure enough I found people talking about the issues, and how it crashes during their sets. Wow, you mean people are actually posting negative things about Ableton? (Sarcasm) LOL.

Anyway, I took a gamble. I saw the beta version on here, KNEW from all of my years using music software, that it was risky and started my show from scratch again since I didn't know if my crashes were because of a corrupted audio file somewhere, or a corrupted saved session. I save my live sets numerically in sequential order. So, I was at KLAMSTERDAM65. Did the file get corrupted at KLASTMERDAM33? Who knew? So, I downloaded the beta and got to work again putting together another quick show.

I didn't have time to put together the same exact show I did at home, so wasn't able to determine if it was due to the amount of things I had in a session or a particular bad file. I mean, the beta crashed but not as much as 8.1.1. What I ultimately put together was ok, and apart from crashing right before I did my show, it did perform without it crashing during the show. There was no time for soundcheck. But, just like everyone else, I turned knobs on my controllers, and various other things to make sure to put it through its paces before beginning.

So what can I say. I experienced a lot of crashes mainly with 8.1.1. I used a beta, which crashed less than 8.1.1 but was by no means perfect. Does that make me a nemesis of Ableton since I mentioned the problem on a "social" website? Hardly.

Are we not "socializing" here in a technical forum? Sharing experiences with Live? I had a few well known artists who use Live extensively contact me over on facebook give me good advice, and told me to try earlier versions of live (8.0.9 to be exact), to which i said ok great! I didn't say, "F@#k that software!"

I'm not trying to bash anything or anyone! I'm an artist trying to do shows with software I purchased that says it does a particular thing.

You wanna bash me for not having a backup of my set in Ableton, go ahead. I honestly didn't know I needed one. But, because of the issues with the crashes leading up to the show, I had Traktor ready to roll if Ableton crashed during the show.

I'm comfortable now to say that it was in fact the known bugs with Ableton 8.1.1 that caused my issues, and not an overzealous young, punk kid who doesn't know how to properly use software and optimize his laptops.

So, to the guys who are from facebook reading my posts, if you are going to quote me, put everything in context. Because, in the end it's you who look like you have an agenda, not telling the whole story, and not ASSume anything. :?

Never knew I had "frenimies!" Sounds like a little hatin' goin on.

That's to Claude.

Out....

Kenny Larkin
All I have to say to all this is - Kenny I was not talking about you in particular when I made the quote about people not being up on their technical game. If you took it the wrong way you just exposed yourself for no reason. I could give a fuck less about the rest of the dribble you spouted. Its meaningless. No hating here dude your doing your thing and I respect that. Your free to say what you like.

But be careful who you challenge ok - no bitches here. We can go to war if you want to - just remember you started this by being sensitive.....
Just remember a lot can get lost in transaltion when using forums - just abit like having an argument with your wife or girlfriend over txt - crosswires can easily happen and take you down the wrong path.
Respect
Time to refocus on the main issue again

lark830
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:57 am

Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by lark830 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:00 am

Go to war? Bro, I've got a new wife, and things to do than waste time, to make this an issue in my life. You seem more hurt than me now taking issue with my response. Especially since you are proposing to go to war? lol

You ain't no bitch? I certainly hope not.

You are serious puffing your chest up trying to fight me? What are you 12?

K

jamief
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:50 pm
Location: Awakend

Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by jamief » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:01 am

lark830 wrote:Go to war? Bro, I've got a new wife, and things to do than waste time, to make this an issue in my life. You seem more hurt than me now taking issue with my response. Especially since you are proposing to go to war? lol

You ain't no bitch? I certainly hope not.

You are serious puffing your chest up trying to fight me? What are you 12?

K

Just remember a lot can get lost in transaltion when using forums :arrow: :idea:

Peace

jamief
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:50 pm
Location: Awakend

Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by jamief » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:04 am

This a better focus and more rewarding both now and for the long term

enagae hear

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=135576

espect :)

jamief
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:50 pm
Location: Awakend

Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by jamief » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:05 am

lark830 wrote:Go to war? Bro, I've got a new wife, and things to do than waste time, to make this an issue in my life. You seem more hurt than me now taking issue with my response. Especially since you are proposing to go to war? lol

You ain't no bitch? I certainly hope not.

You are serious puffing your chest up trying to fight me? What are you 12?

K
Ive got 3 kids and a wife and i rely on Live to make my moeny from amongst other things. So Ableton ............................................... :!:

cynetmedia
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by cynetmedia » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:05 am

lark830 wrote:Go to war? Bro, I've got a new wife, and things to do than waste time, to make this an issue in my life. You seem more hurt than me now taking issue with my response. Especially since you are proposing to go to war? lol

You ain't no bitch? I certainly hope not.

You are serious puffing your chest up trying to fight me? What are you 12?

K
I have no need to puff up at you. If I want to get at you bro, I could.
Your blowing this way out of proportion kenny. You said what you had to say - in your witty and comedic way and that's cool. Everyone loves a smart ass.
So Ill leave it at that.
Keep on keepin on....

jamief
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Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:50 pm
Location: Awakend

Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by jamief » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:06 am

jamief wrote:
lark830 wrote:Go to war? Bro, I've got a new wife, and things to do than waste time, to make this an issue in my life. You seem more hurt than me now taking issue with my response. Especially since you are proposing to go to war? lol

You ain't no bitch? I certainly hope not.

You are serious puffing your chest up trying to fight me? What are you 12?

K
Ive got 3 kids and a wife and i rely on Live to make my moeny from amongst other things. So Ableton ............................................... :!:
Live helps support my family. Ableto your starvin my kids - they have no shoes ! 8O

lark830
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:57 am

Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by lark830 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:15 am

Still with the threats. You came across as intelligent in the previous post before my response. Now THESE are your responses?

"war" and "get at you" ?

really, claude? really?

(shaking head)

we've never had a bad word between us, and now you go from making a comment, me replying, then you threatening to go to war with me?

that's pretty sad bro.

but, like you said, i'm past this pissing game reserved for kids with something to prove.

peace to u.

jamief
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:50 pm
Location: Awakend

Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by jamief » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:18 am

lark830 wrote:Still with the threats. You came across as intelligent in the previous post before my response. Now THESE are your responses?

"war" and "get at you" ?

really, claude? really?

(shaking head)

we've never had a bad word between us, and now you go from making a comment, me replying, then you threatening to go to war with me?

that's pretty sad bro.

Claude lark Stop it ! You guys are from thesame school. I also had guys at me on this forum.
Remember harmonize youve seen the music do it on the dancefloor - music.
Please stop - i,m feelin bad about this - i started this thread - please :? :cry:

but, like you said, i'm past this pissing game reserved for kids with something to prove.

peace to u.

jamief
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:50 pm
Location: Awakend

Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by jamief » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:20 am

lark830 wrote:Still with the threats. You came across as intelligent in the previous post before my response. Now THESE are your responses?

"war" and "get at you" ?

really, claude? really?

(shaking head)

we've never had a bad word between us, and now you go from making a comment, me replying, then you threatening to go to war with me?

that's pretty sad bro.

but, like you said, i'm past this pissing game reserved for kids with something to prove.

peace to u.
Claude Lark stop it ! Harmonize you ve seen it happenin all over the world on the dancefloors when you play the music.
i,m feelin bad about this now - i wasnt intending anytghin like this - please stop it - :oops: :cry:

Focus on the bad and it grows focus on the Love and it grows. maybe it isnt alwasy that straightforward but it should be.


Imaulle
Posts: 128
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Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by Imaulle » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:01 pm

so if you know richie hawtin then do you know brad roulier? if so, youre prolly just a fucking moron, like him. when brad roulier performs in front of a crowd, he pushes play in abletons arrangment view, then stands around like a faggot for 2 hours not even attempting to look like he is actually performing live...

I guess thats a benefit of owning your own club and being one of the founders of beatport

Dennis DeSantis
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Location: Ableton NYC

Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:14 pm

Hi folks,

We're sorry to hear that people are having issues with Live.

Our recent announcement regarding our bugfixing initiative is serious - we have suspended development on new features until Live 8 is stable.

As much as we're unhappy to hear that our software causes problems, we're also unhappy to read that our software causes fights. A few points:

- Please don't blame other users for problems with Live. If someone's had a problem with Live, Ableton WANTS to hear about it, whether through our forums, Facebook, etc. We pay attention to what's happening in the world and do our best to read and respond to issues with Live whenever we see them. Discouraging users from posting about their problems doesn't help us solve them.

- While it's true that we try to keep track of issues wherever they happen, it's certainly helpful for our support team to hear about a crash as well. If you experience a crash or bug, please contact support: http://www.ableton.com/pages/support/co ... al_support

Best,

leedsquietman
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Location: greater toronto area

Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by leedsquietman » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:05 pm

Kenny, I think most of us don't mean illwill towards you, it just seems surprising that you were seemingly unaware that Live has been having issues which prompted the CEO to make a public announcement. I think most of were just surprised that you didn't seemingly have a back up plan. Also, Jamie F should not have spoken about you by name on the forum unless you gave him permission (sorry Jamie, I like you a lot, but maybe mentioning Kenny by name wasn't the best thing to do, even though I don't doubt your good intentions, you may have been better off saying 'a certain well known techno artist'). All of us have felt enraged by software (and by Live) at some point and vented our spleen in a forum, most of us have then been jumped on by fanboys. I think that Facebook and Twitter and such give us too easy an option and many of us write stuff on there off the cuff without thinking too much and then the inevitable attack of the fanboys happens.

I guess having been bitten that you are now more likely to prepare some kind of backup plan, as you say this stuff can happen anytime, anywhere even with supposedly 'rock solid' software and you're right that Ableton need to set about improving this pronto - Live has a niche market and live performance is where it has excelled and why many buy it, so it's imperative that the software should work. Many of the people commenting on this thread are not totally blinded by love for ABleton, many have had issues and bugs at some point, but it gets less pronounced when it happens at a non critical time as opposed to being on stage, earning a living from it.

The main thing is - in the end we all want the same thing. A better, more solid and dependable Live. Ableton say they're working on it as a priority and let's hope that brings the best out of the software soon.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

SubFunk
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Re: Ableton HQ please read

Post by SubFunk » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:14 pm

leedsquietman wrote:I guess having been bitten that you are now more likely to prepare some kind of backup plan, as you say this stuff can happen anytime, anywhere even with supposedly 'rock solid' software and you're right that Ableton need to set about improving this pronto - Live has a niche market and live performance is where it has excelled and why many buy it, so it's imperative that the software should work. Many of the people commenting on this thread are not totally blinded by love for ABleton, many have had issues and bugs at some point, but it gets less pronounced when it happens at a non critical time as opposed to being on stage, earning a living from it.

The main thing is - in the end we all want the same thing. A better, more solid and dependable Live. Ableton say they're working on it as a priority and let's hope that brings the best out of the software soon.
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