So start funelling people - give them the info

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
3phase
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by 3phase » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:14 am

ts again lies and calling the bugs my bugs ..

as said before thats the most disgusting attitude of ableton to see the bugs as user related personal problems..

and because the user just reports "his" bug and dont fills in all the forms and endless requests the users "BUG" falls of the table or priority list?

sorry..thats the most stupid attitude for software design i ever came along.. and i ve to admit the mess ableton is in now makes me smiling a bit, because it is such a well deserved result of such a stupid thinking.


Of cause reported crash bugs or bugs that effect the audience and pa systems saftey have to be handled with priority on a software thats ment as a life tool.. And not be handled user dependend

There are no user bugs..any bug is a bug of the program itself that will effect at leasts parts of the user base...

At least for apple users there are no self build computers..
As a serious company you have to assume that there are serious problems when serious people report letal bugs..

Instead they play mighty officer/bad customer games...

and than all this lying.. only fixed when i started to cooperate... i was cooperating all the time as you can see in my weekly sended crashlog...even with an officially dropped supportcase by some Dom...

you cant really tell me that i was the only one that came along the crashing and popping noises of L8.. not with your thousends of free betaboys... you really cant tell me that..


do you know the movie brazil?
Last edited by 3phase on Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

3dot...
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by 3dot... » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:21 am

Tone Deft wrote:SPACE MONKEY!!

btw Live crashed today when I deleted a reverb. hooray for saving. I went ahead and asked Live to recover from the crash, another C++ error and crash. reboot, reload, 'sall good.
..if you don't seem outraged by a 'live performance' software...
sold for a hefty sum...as an official stable release...
(a year ago)
that is crashing at the simplest of tasks...
(not a random once a week/month...
and not talking about other bugs ...only crashes)
then I think you're missing something...
people are supposed to perform with this..and compose...
that is why they bought it when it was released..
IT IS quite outrageous... and an apology is really the least they could do...
(...in order for users not to switch..I for one am pretty concerned about Abletons stability...
going on stage is more like Russian roulette)

and you're telling the guy he's wrong..
well...his attitude maybe wrong.. I agree
but he is very right to get angry..apologies or not..
the end-user shouldn't concern himself with the size of the Ableton team... or their so-called priorities..
(isn't this the no.1 priority in the first place?)
do you think in the middle of a working session I'm gonna stop everything and think about reproducing the bug? then wait 5 mins. for the crash-report..then upload it...?
that's pretty crazy.
that shit was supposed to be over with in the development-Alpha-Beta stages...
and maybe the first quarter of the year after release in the worst case scenario..
it was Ableton who released a very buggy (more like 'crashy')product...
maybe they just needed the finances.. I really don't know the motive for this is.

so 3phase is right to be angry...
and Gerhard is right to apologize..and make a comforting statement

like you td.. I don't get vex anymore when it happens...
but I have nothing nice to say until they make it work steady.
I'll give credit when it's due.
in the meantime it's ctrl-shift-s until the crash..
and that...my friends ..is not worth 1000$
(the price of the suite+m4l)
Image

Tone Deft
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by Tone Deft » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:57 am

I say we nuke Ableton HQ from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

nuperspective
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by nuperspective » Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:46 am

"fuckin A man - game over!"

hoffman2k
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by hoffman2k » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:04 am

3phase wrote:ts again lies and calling the bugs my bugs ..

as said before thats the most disgusting attitude of ableton to see the bugs as user related personal problems..

and because the user just reports "his" bug and dont fills in all the forms and endless requests the users "BUG" falls of the table or priority list?

sorry..thats the most stupid attitude for software design i ever came along.. and i ve to admit the mess ableton is in now makes me smiling a bit, because it is such a well deserved result of such a stupid thinking.


Of cause reported crash bugs or bugs that effect the audience and pa systems saftey have to be handled with priority on a software thats ment as a life tool.. And not be handled user dependend

There are no user bugs..any bug is a bug of the program itself that will effect at leasts parts of the user base...

At least for apple users there are no self build computers..
As a serious company you have to assume that there are serious problems when serious people report letal bugs..

Instead they play mighty officer/bad customer games...

and than all this lying.. only fixed when i started to cooperate... i was cooperating all the time as you can see in my weekly sended crashlog...even with an officially dropped supportcase by some dickheads..

you cant really tell me that i was the only one that came along the crashing and popping noises of L8.. not with your thousends of free betaboys... you really cant tell me that..


do you know the movie brazil?
Call me a liar all you want. We both know I'm right.
Some of your bugs got fixed in the first week of December, which was incidentally the same week you filled the bug forum with reports and gave the info the developers needed.

As for calling Nico names. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he actually proposed to come visit to check out your bugs. You literally can walk inside Ableton HQ with your laptop and show your bugs.

oblique strategies
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by oblique strategies » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:06 am

"The HQ is located... here."
Image

nuperspective
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by nuperspective » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:11 am

"outstanding"

hoffman2k
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by hoffman2k » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:19 am

Image

"And crashing in big venues many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell those developers that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our stability!!"

Green Lemon
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by Green Lemon » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:53 am

Tone Deft wrote:SPACE MONKEY!!
... spitting in someone's face after they apologize is in poor taste, IMO.

mostly if a product sucks I just don't use it.

...

No shit. So Ableton overreached a bit, bit off more cool ideas than they could chew, put out Live 8 and M4L and the preview for the Bridge and the sharing thing that hasn't got off the ground yet too early (and we were all dying for all of them, remember?). And there's bugs, because they did it all in a bit of a hurry. You know what I say? Good for them. Good for them for pushing the envelope of musical technology. And that's why we're all using this software. If there's something better, go use it. If you had a more stable version in the past, and you've got a big gig, you should use the old version (which is the "Pro" thing to do, as Beats pointed out the other day...). The bugs will all get squashed eventually, y'all need to chill. Jamief is helping things along, being the squeaky wheel but he's polite about it see?

I've been making up characters for forum members lately. 3dot and 3phase are that two-headed monster from Sesame Street, remember them?:

Image

The resemblance is uncanny. One begins to whine, and then the other chimes in, and this wave of energy is built up and pretty soon is apparent that Live 8 is useless and Ableton HQ is chock full of politicians.

Or they could be:

Image

Now don't get all sore, guys. Here's Hoffman:

Image

and the very scary Tone Deft!:

Image

I know you have a mullet.
--
first 1k as chrysalis33rpm.

hoffman2k
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by hoffman2k » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:29 am

Green Lemon wrote:Now don't get all sore, guys. Here's Hoffman:

Image
:lol:

It gets even funnier when you realize I grew up with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz42I-Tgn54

jamief
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by jamief » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:12 pm

Green Lemon wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:SPACE MONKEY!!
... spitting in someone's face after they apologize is in poor taste, IMO.

mostly if a product sucks I just don't use it.

...

No shit. So Ableton overreached a bit, bit off more cool ideas than they could chew, put out Live 8 and M4L and the preview for the Bridge and the sharing thing that hasn't got off the ground yet too early (and we were all dying for all of them, remember?). And there's bugs, because they did it all in a bit of a hurry. You know what I say? Good for them. Good for them for pushing the envelope of musical technology. And that's why we're all using this software. If there's something better, go use it. If you had a more stable version in the past, and you've got a big gig, you should use the old version (which is the "Pro" thing to do, as Beats pointed out the other day...). The bugs will all get squashed eventually, y'all need to chill. Jamief is helping things along, being the squeaky wheel but he's polite about it see?

I've been making up characters for forum members lately. 3dot and 3phase are that two-headed monster from Sesame Street, remember them?:

Image

The resemblance is uncanny. One begins to whine, and then the other chimes in, and this wave of energy is built up and pretty soon is apparent that Live 8 is useless and Ableton HQ is chock full of politicians.

Or they could be:

Image

Now don't get all sore, guys. Here's Hoffman:

Image

and the very scary Tone Deft!:

Image

I know you have a mullet.
Well thankyou for seeing my intention :D .
I think ableton did bite off more than they can chew this last while. And i have often done this myself in lots of ways with lots of dirrent situations.
So they will become wiser and more balanced and have less stress and more harmony within their orgainsation i hope.
Yes i love ableton and hopefully so do you all- so lets help them and focus on creating benfit from a testing situation. Life is short :)
Incidently as you can see from my user profile since 2002 i think - and i,ve been using live since version 1 ( i ditched 10 years of cubase use for live in 2001 to move completely to live) . Ever since version 1 till 7 lives updates were significant yet moderate and seemed to be very considered - ...... so ............. just my observation. Ableton HQ - respect - and get some good sleep and rest and relaxation.

best J
:)

3phase
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by 3phase » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:22 pm

hoffman2k wrote: Call me a liar all you want. We both know I'm right.
Some of your bugs got fixed in the first week of December, which was incidentally the same week you filled the bug forum with reports and gave the info the developers needed.

As for calling Nico names. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he actually proposed to come visit to check out your bugs. You literally can walk inside Ableton HQ with your laptop and show your bugs.

show my bugs? still bending the truth.. you really think that you do the custumors a favor when fixing theire bugs?

sorry.. you do the customers a favor in not creating leathal bugs in the first hand and to perform propper betatesting before releasing a software.

that you dont do propper betatesting yourself is easily shown on each beta release..
you find something in 5 minutes..all the time..
like this
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=134925

just have a look in the bug forum..why none of theese things was found by ableton employes and eliminated before the public beta release? issnt the sheer amount of new bugs in any release telling that there is NO ableton internal betateting? Or is this performed by drug adicts?

Ableton has killed so many sessions for me this year.. and you really ask to give even more infos..spend private time to drive thru the city to show you your bugs..
or to interupt the session to create a reproducaable situation for you..
sorry..thats the job of ableton employes.. i havent payed for L8 to do betatesting...
ok..actually i did.. the benefit from ableton live 8 for me this year was lot of trouble and doing permanent betatesting ..filing reports and having fights with arogant ableton employes... and all this excitement for just 129 euro..
wont find a better rate for continues trouble elsewhere..



actually i agree now..


nuke them boys


the headquarters are here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xNnRBksvOU
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

hoffman2k
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by hoffman2k » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:45 pm

3phase wrote:
hoffman2k wrote: Call me a liar all you want. We both know I'm right.
Some of your bugs got fixed in the first week of December, which was incidentally the same week you filled the bug forum with reports and gave the info the developers needed.

As for calling Nico names. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he actually proposed to come visit to check out your bugs. You literally can walk inside Ableton HQ with your laptop and show your bugs.

show my bugs? still bending the truth.. you really think that you do the custumors a favor when fixing theire bugs?

sorry.. you do the customers a favor in not creating leathal bugs in the first hand and to perform propper betatesting before releasing a software.

that you dont do propper betatesting yourself is easily shown on each beta release..
you find something in 5 minutes..all the time..
like this
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=134925

just have a look in the bug forum..why none of things was found by ableton employes and eliminated before the public beta release? issnt the sheer amount of new bugs in any release telling that there is NO ableton internal betateting? Or is this performed by drug adicts?

Ableton has killed so many sessions for me this year.. and you really ask to give even more infos..spend private time to drive thru the city to show you your bugs..
or to interupt the session to create a reproducaable situation for you..
sorry..thats the job of ableton employes.. i havent payed for L8 to do betatesting...
ok..actually i did.. the benefit from ableton live 8 for me this year was lot of trouble and doing permanent betatesting ..filing reports and having fights with arogant ableton employes... and all this excitement for just 129 euro..
wont find a better rate for continues trouble elsewhere..
So you being in various threads ranting along about how you know what Ableton has done wrong, is a better way to spend your time. As opposed to taking a drive downtown with the possible outcome being that you are a much happier person.
And stop addressing me as if I'm Ableton. I'm just common sense personified as an owl carrying a book.`

Anyway. Lets hope Ableton puts together an automated bug reporter, so you'll be reporting bugs wetter you want to or not. My bugs, Your bugs or their bugs. If you're of the opinion that others are experiencing this too, its very selfish not to report it and rather insulting that you would spend your time saying its a waste of time.

3phase
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by 3phase » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:17 pm

hoffman2k wrote:
So you being in various threads ranting along about how you know what Ableton has done wrong, is a better way to spend your time. As opposed to taking a drive downtown with the possible outcome being that you are a much happier person.
And stop addressing me as if I'm Ableton. I'm just common sense personified as an owl carrying a book.`

Anyway. Lets hope Ableton puts together an automated bug reporter, so you'll be reporting bugs wetter you want to or not. My bugs, Your bugs or their bugs. If you're of the opinion that others are experiencing this too, its very selfish not to report it and rather insulting that you would spend your time saying its a waste of time.
so now its me beeing shellfish? and not ableton that safes a lot of money by leaving all the betattesting to unpaid users.

first you lie about me not having send in reports.. now you just turn it around that my shellfish beeing is responsible that my bugs are effecting the work of other users in negativ way.. the mean 3phase bugs..


why you dont call yourself goebels2k?


but i see now why other users dont report bugs.. they are scared to be held responsible for "theire" bug..

super intelligent tactics to have a virtual bugfree software.. only problem ..it crashes from time to time... and dont really works good in any area...
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

hoffman2k
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Re: So start funelling people - give them the info

Post by hoffman2k » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:34 pm

3phase wrote:first you lie about me not having send in reports.. now you just turn it around that my shellfish beeing is responsible that my bugs are effecting the work of other users in negativ way.. the mean 3phase bugs..
I said you were arguing instead of reporting. That is not a lie. You know it isn't because we've already discussed this. Plenty of times...
Look, you can keep twisting my words all you want. But you actually accuse me of twisting yours?
Now I know how Jon Stewart feels.

Btw.. To prevent unintended comic relief.. Its "selfish" not "shellfish" :D

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