So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage? Pop! lol

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
LoopStationZebra
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So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage? Pop! lol

Post by LoopStationZebra » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:12 am

Live has been fairly good to me these last couple of years. But with my recent audio glitch that's seemingly come out of nowhere, I'm getting a bit concerned. The rather depressing Zoe Keating thread over in the support section got me thinking: Should I give Logic and Mainstage a go? Not as a replacement for Live; although that could be a possibility. Rather, as a smart plan B. I'm intrigued by some of the capabilities of Logic/Mainstage, but how is it as a live looping platform? Anyone use it consistently WITH Live?

Anybody use it for purely live looping stuff? How does it stack up? I"ve seen some vids on YouTube, and gotta say it looks good.

The grass is always greener I suppose, but it's that old adage about all the eggs in one basket.... Something about...*shrug* avoiding that. Or something. :P

I've been a bit of an Ableton fanboy. Always defending the lads and cause and all that. But...but...
Last edited by LoopStationZebra on Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mholloway
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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by mholloway » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:18 am

Do a search of the forum and you'll find plenty of discussion of Logic. Nobody has really revealed a good workflow for using Live and Logic together in any sort of natural way; I'm pretty sure one doesn't exist (I own both; I never use logic). Logic is a perfectly good old-school style DAW but I think you're going to get bored real quick if you've been using Live for years. The lack of session view will drive you crazy. The slowness of getting your ideas down....and the workload of actually trying to use both together, well, I think you're likely to find it's more trouble than it's worth. but that's just me....and a lot of others around here.

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LoopStationZebra
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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:19 am

Yeah, thanks. I've read quite a few threads but not many I've found really talk about MainStage and Live Looping. It's my understanding that it hasn't been until recently that Logic was even a viable looping tool.
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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by tlennon » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:25 am

I get great results with Protools and Live reqired. The best of both worlds.
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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by beats me » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:57 am

Logic is boss, but a little tricky in comparison to Live and I really wouldn't consider it a performance DAW like Live is, even with Main Stage. If nothing else it's a lot more stable than Live is currently and you can probably use double what you can with Live before the CPU blows up.

I have Logic 8 but as soon as I upgrade to 9 I plan to make it my honey, but mostly out of needing a change of scenery.

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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by bigbadotis » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:10 am

I switched to Mainstage w/ Live for a while to do live performances / looping. Am in the process of switching back to solely use Live. Not sure if it's a good idea or not... I just like Live's interface so much better than that of Mainstage. But, at the same time, I really miss the ability to quickly change between snapshots like I could do in Mainstage.

I don't know. I'd say that both are worth checking out if that's possible for you; there's no clear winner as far as I'm concerned. If Live had some type of snapshot capability it would easily be the better option of the two, but as it is now you have to jump through all sorts of hoops to move from one song to the next if you're using different racks, different volumes on different tracks, different fx send amounts... it's a pain. Mainstage makes it super super simple; Ableton should definitely look to it for inspiration in this regard.

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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by dum » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:11 am

dunno what you want out of your looping setup, but you could consider solutions such as
http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/augustusloop.html
or
http://www.essej.net/sooperlooper/
(i think sooperlooper might have a stand-alone looping setup)

if you're going the looper VST route, you can also think about vst hosts like plogue bidule or audiomulch (i use em generally, they're sweet. there may be other slim vst hosts worth considering). They're more affordable than logic and less bloated. plogue is sweet as fuck as a raw vst host in my experience, and a cause worthy of support. i'm still dipping my toes in audiomulch, but so far seems like it could be a lean vst host candidate.

Can't say I know all that much about mainstage.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by mikemc » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:18 am

i think the looping works really well if you have already set the tempo of your set. it can be a little tricky if you have not, and you want looper to set the tempo.

[edit] I read the thread you mentioned, and it seems like it is something new since 8.1.1. I haven't used looper that much with 8.1.1, but I will this weekend for an extended period and see if I see the same sort of audio misbehavior.

ThrowAway
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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by ThrowAway » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:43 am

i think my next 500 spent on music shit will go to apple but not for anything to do with looper/mainstage.

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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by gtodd876 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:33 pm

I got Logic/Mainstage over the holidays. I'm just putting the finishing touches on a EP and Logic has been a godsend. I'm sure it's because the project only consists of recorded audio(Double Bass/Strings/Vocals) and an instance of Ivory for the piano track. It really excels at recording audio for verse/chorus/bridge songs and editing that audio afterwards.

I'm just now learning mainstage and I like the fact that when you switch patches the tails from the previous effects do not get cut off and once that audio is finished only the patch you are using hits the CPU. I will be doing song style looping when we play these songs live so I think Mainstage will be the way to go since I can not set the tempo ahead of time. I just need a setup that let me loop and choose which effects patch I want to use as if I had a big pedalboard of hardware pedals(Ableton's Looper pops and clicks too much on my macbook)

I will go back to Live once the bugs are sorted out because I absolutely love the program but I think I will be using it for solo live looping..... and using it to try to do new things with my double bass.... for recording standard tunes in a regular ol song format (with vocals and acoustic instruments) I have been much more productive with Logic thus far.

Disclaimer as always before people blow up in a logic/Live war: This is only my experience and I'm by no means an expert. I'm sure you can do any type of music in both programs. I only have so much time to do my music since I've been teaching music as a high school teacher this year...... so I need to find the fastest workflow that works for me.

LoopStationZebra, I just thought I share my experience in case it helps.
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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:37 pm

dum wrote:dunno what you want out of your looping setup, but you could consider solutions such as
http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/augustusloop.html
or
http://www.essej.net/sooperlooper/
(i think sooperlooper might have a stand-alone looping setup)

if you're going the looper VST route, you can also think about vst hosts like plogue bidule or audiomulch (i use em generally, they're sweet. there may be other slim vst hosts worth considering). They're more affordable than logic and less bloated. plogue is sweet as fuck as a raw vst host in my experience, and a cause worthy of support. i'm still dipping my toes in audiomulch, but so far seems like it could be a lean vst host candidate.

Can't say I know all that much about mainstage.
That's good stuff there, b. Tnx. Hadn't looked at sooper or augustus in ages and had forgotten about them. And vst hosts haven't even been on my radar - until now.
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LoopStationZebra
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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:39 pm

mikemc wrote: [edit] I read the thread you mentioned, and it seems like it is something new since 8.1.1. I haven't used looper that much with 8.1.1, but I will this weekend for an extended period and see if I see the same sort of audio misbehavior.

Hey Mike. Just to clarify, my problem isn't with Looper in Live. Rather, recording into any clip slot will give me a nasty crackle as soon as I hit the clip again and playback begins. Playback is a Bitch. lol. Actually, I've not tested to see if there's a pop with Looper record/playback. I'll give that a try in a bit. :o
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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by mikemc » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:43 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:
mikemc wrote: [edit] I read the thread you mentioned, and it seems like it is something new since 8.1.1. I haven't used looper that much with 8.1.1, but I will this weekend for an extended period and see if I see the same sort of audio misbehavior.

Hey Mike. Just to clarify, my problem isn't with Looper in Live. Rather, recording into any clip slot will give me a nasty crackle as soon as I hit the clip again and playback begins. Playback is a Bitch. lol. Actually, I've not tested to see if there's a pop with Looper record/playback. I'll give that a try in a bit. :o

Ah, ok, sorry... using live to record loops :) duh.

Here is a question: are you using the mouse to activate the clip record, or a midi controller? Also see my post in the zoe keating thread you mentioned about pops and crackles.

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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:26 pm

mikemc wrote:
LoopStationZebra wrote:
mikemc wrote: [edit] I read the thread you mentioned, and it seems like it is something new since 8.1.1. I haven't used looper that much with 8.1.1, but I will this weekend for an extended period and see if I see the same sort of audio misbehavior.

Hey Mike. Just to clarify, my problem isn't with Looper in Live. Rather, recording into any clip slot will give me a nasty crackle as soon as I hit the clip again and playback begins. Playback is a Bitch. lol. Actually, I've not tested to see if there's a pop with Looper record/playback. I'll give that a try in a bit. :o

Ah, ok, sorry... using live to record loops :) duh.

Here is a question: are you using the mouse to activate the clip record, or a midi controller? Also see my post in the zoe keating thread you mentioned about pops and crackles.

I've tested with both my mouse, Akai LP keyboard, FCB1010, LP, etc. Doesn't make a difference. Audio track weirdness, hehe.
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Re: So. Um. Should I be looking at Logic/Mainstage?

Post by mikemc » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:32 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote: I've tested with both my mouse, Akai LP keyboard, FCB1010, LP, etc. Doesn't make a difference. Audio track weirdness, hehe.
What is your sample rate? [edit] also have you tried minimizing the interface?

-- sorry more edit --

Here is what I did: set up everything without audio running, because pops and clicks using the mouse to drop things in etc. Set up midi in routing for the controller I wanted to use to play notes, and then assigning controllers to turn various things up and down.

Then, minimized the interface. If you do this while audio is running, there is a lot of noise, but then it 'settles' and everything is fine, it just goes and goes clear as a bell. Not ideal at all, but there you have it.
Last edited by mikemc on Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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