OT: Where non-Americans get to vote - Please have your say!!

Alex Reynolds · Post by **Alex Reynolds** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:55 pm

forge wrote:
Alex Reynolds wrote:
I dont think Kerry would really be that much better than Bush
It's a good thing non-citizens can't vote in US elections if they're all as misinformed. No offense.
It's not so much about being misinformed but unbearably cynical. Kerry might be less of a Cowboy, but I cant see him being a champion for justice - the number one threat to humanity today (a LONG way ahead of
'terror') is climate change - America needs to not only stop consuming to the extent it does but actually take steps to reverse it. Your man Bush wouldn't even sign Kyoto - this late in the game there isn't alot of hope for our children - they're certainly going to inherit a pretty shitty world at this rate.

No offence but I find it difficult to accept Americans are that much better informed because Dubbya got close enough to buy his way in last time. A moronic pig like him shouldn't even have made it to the race.

The US media en masse is notorious for bing the most one sided contrived corporate sponsored tripe which means Americans have to go a bit further to be well informed and the president you've had in office since 2000 is living proof.

Also - you only ever hear about America in your news - most of us outside hear a bit more about the rest of the world.

I have UK, Canadian and US citizenship; Bush is not "my man". I'm quite well-informed, thank you, having access to many (often conflicting) news sources around the world.

Saying Kerry is the same as Bush is a gross mistatement of fact, and a serious display of ignorance that may go far to explain most Americans' dislike of mainland Europeans who thumb their nose at the US.

Imagine an American saying Tony Blair is the same as Michael Howard, because they both have British accents. That's the same level of ridiculous ignorance.

I find, ironically, that Europeans are less and less interested in their own culpability in the problems of the world, and more interested in pointing out America's blanket guilt.

The EU, for instance, for all its bullshit about capital punishment as a barrier to membership, sells a fair amount of weaponry to the world -- yet there is little to no mention of this in its media.

As a people, look in the mirror, please, before you criticize another country. I speak from a multinational perspective here.

Thanks,
Alex

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:30 pm

Alex Reynolds wrote:
forge wrote:
Alex Reynolds wrote: It's a good thing non-citizens can't vote in US elections if they're all as misinformed. No offense.
It's not so much about being misinformed but unbearably cynical. Kerry might be less of a Cowboy, but I cant see him being a champion for justice - the number one threat to humanity today (a LONG way ahead of
'terror') is climate change - America needs to not only stop consuming to the extent it does but actually take steps to reverse it. Your man Bush wouldn't even sign Kyoto - this late in the game there isn't alot of hope for our children - they're certainly going to inherit a pretty shitty world at this rate.

No offence but I find it difficult to accept Americans are that much better informed because Dubbya got close enough to buy his way in last time. A moronic pig like him shouldn't even have made it to the race.

The US media en masse is notorious for bing the most one sided contrived corporate sponsored tripe which means Americans have to go a bit further to be well informed and the president you've had in office since 2000 is living proof.

Also - you only ever hear about America in your news - most of us outside hear a bit more about the rest of the world.
I have UK, Canadian and US citizenship; Bush is not "my man". I'm quite well-informed, thank you, having access to many (often conflicting) news sources around the world.

Saying Kerry is the same as Bush is a gross mistatement of fact, and a serious display of ignorance that may go far to explain most Americans' dislike of mainland Europeans who thumb their nose at the US.

Imagine an American saying Tony Blair is the same as Michael Howard, because they both have British accents. That's the same level of ridiculous ignorance.

I find, ironically, that Europeans are less and less interested in their own culpability in the problems of the world, and more interested in pointing out America's blanket guilt.

The EU, for instance, for all its bullshit about capital punishment as a barrier to membership, sells a fair amount of weaponry to the world -- yet there is little to no mention of this in its media.

As a people, look in the mirror, please, before you criticize another country. I speak from a multinational perspective here.

Thanks,
Alex

Firstly - I don't see much difference between Tony Blair and Michael Howard, and while it may not be down to their accents, it certainly i down to their lifesyles, livelihoods and ideologies. This is where they are similar to the current Skull and crossbones members battling it out.

The comment was more a dejected acknowldgement of injustice that is becoming more and more impossible to resolve largely because democracy these days consists of voting for 2 almost identically corrupt and pointless excuses for leaders and I'm not really interested in UK versus US Vs EU or whatever there all as bad as each other, but at the moment the president of the one with the biggest military is charging about killing people with it, so the whole world has a right to question it and say something because it affects us all.

The US can not go around starting wars and ignoring the UN without being accountable, and the UK is degenerating into becoming another state of the US anyway so it applies here too. But the really sad thing is Michael Howard would probably be worse so besides a hung parliament with the Lib Dems were pretty much screwed.

d2 · Post by d2 » Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:17 pm

"Skull & Crossbones"

"Who invented AIDs ? (hint, hint)"

"War for oil"

And this is why I bring up "flashcards" ... it's like some people don't think for themselves at all ... too easy to just leap for the "flashcard answer" that confirms your most base predjudices.

Any idea how many thousands of members of various fraternal societies there are? I guess I should freak out if a couple of Rotarians happen to be on the ticket, too?

The suggestion or hint that the U.S.. "invented AIDs" ... puleeeez, just put your tinfoil beanie back on and ask the doctor to up your dose of anti-psychotics.

Why would the U.S. (or any nation) go to war to get a resource that can purchased on the open market much less expensively any day? Especially if it's all some "evil capitalist plot" to make money. Jeez ... the contradictions in logic you'd have to blindly accept to even propose such things! (nobody even bothers to check that British BP, French Elf Aquitaine or Dutch Shell will most likely get all of the oil contracts)

d2 · Post by d2 » Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:17 pm

(double post deleted)

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:58 pm

d2 wrote:"Skull & Crossbones"

"Who invented AIDs ? (hint, hint)"

"War for oil"

And this is why I bring up "flashcards" ... it's like some people don't think for themselves at all ... too easy to just leap for the "flashcard answer" that confirms your most base predjudices.

Any idea how many thousands of members of various fraternal societies there are? I guess I should freak out if a couple of Rotarians happen to be on the ticket, too?

The suggestion or hint that the U.S.. "invented AIDs" ... puleeeez, just put your tinfoil beanie back on and ask the doctor to up your dose of anti-psychotics.

Why would the U.S. (or any nation) go to war to get a resource that can purchased on the open market much less expensively any day? Especially if it's all some "evil capitalist plot" to make money. Jeez ... the contradictions in logic you'd have to blindly accept to even propose such things! (nobody even bothers to check that British BP, French Elf Aquitaine or Dutch Shell will most likely get all of the oil contracts)

thanks for that little chuckle

Finally, A conversation I can deal with -

Oil faeries are going to cast a special Oil spell and oil will flow from the magic well so that Uncle SAm can buy it openly on the market and not have to kill anyone to get it.

I'm going to stop wasting my time answering after this post I promise.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:01 pm

d2 wrote:"Skull & Crossbones"

"Who invented AIDs ? (hint, hint)"

"War for oil"

And this is why I bring up "flashcards" ... it's like some people don't think for themselves at all ... too easy to just leap for the "flashcard answer" that confirms your most base predjudices.

Any idea how many thousands of members of various fraternal societies there are? I guess I should freak out if a couple of Rotarians happen to be on the ticket, too?

The suggestion or hint that the U.S.. "invented AIDs" ... puleeeez, just put your tinfoil beanie back on and ask the doctor to up your dose of anti-psychotics.

Why would the U.S. (or any nation) go to war to get a resource that can purchased on the open market much less expensively any day? Especially if it's all some "evil capitalist plot" to make money. Jeez ... the contradictions in logic you'd have to blindly accept to even propose such things! (nobody even bothers to check that British BP, French Elf Aquitaine or Dutch Shell will most likely get all of the oil contracts)

thanks for that little chuckle

Finally, A conversation I can deal with -

Oil faeries are going to cast a special Oil spell and oil will flow from the magic well so that Uncle SAm can buy it openly on the market and not have to kill anyone to get it.

I'm going to stop wasting my time answering after this post I promise.

Fingers · Post by **Fingers** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:13 am

Alex Reynolds wrote:Imagine an American saying Tony Blair is the same as Michael Howard, because they both have British accents. That's the same level of ridiculous ignorance.

Alex

Tony Blair is the same as Michael Howard. That's the whole problem. John Kerry's supposed to be a Democrat, but he's happy to wrap up in camo togs and shoot some beasties to convince rednecks he's an ok guy. He's an alternative to Bush and an improvement by default, nothing more.

And there's no such thing as a British accent. I assume you mean English accent. I won't get upset, you wouldn't understand my accent anyway.

I think I might give up now. D2's too busy bashing everyone else and not responding to me at all. Ignore me and I will go away. Call that weak but it's the weekend and I'm half cut.

A DJ · Post by **A DJ** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:49 am

d2 wrote:"Skull & Crossbones"

"Who invented AIDs ? (hint, hint)"

"War for oil"

And this is why I bring up "flashcards" ... it's like some people don't think for themselves at all ... too easy to just leap for the "flashcard answer" that confirms your most base predjudices.

Any idea how many thousands of members of various fraternal societies there are? I guess I should freak out if a couple of Rotarians happen to be on the ticket, too?

The suggestion or hint that the U.S.. "invented AIDs" ... puleeeez, just put your tinfoil beanie back on and ask the doctor to up your dose of anti-psychotics.

Why would the U.S. (or any nation) go to war to get a resource that can purchased on the open market much less expensively any day? Especially if it's all some "evil capitalist plot" to make money. Jeez ... the contradictions in logic you'd have to blindly accept to even propose such things! (nobody even bothers to check that British BP, French Elf Aquitaine or Dutch Shell will most likely get all of the oil contracts)

i never said U.S....that would be disrespectfull to all good americans..........

Oil is becoming a very rare good in the near future....ever heard off oil peak?
do a google

makes sense to secure the last oil reserves

afhanistan and iraq.....maybe i am wrong...i hope so...

but this is a daily fact....the oil is getting more expensive each week....

and u talk about societes fraternal....if i am correct u mean "skull and bones" and "knights off malta" or "the knights templar"and such groups

the self proclaimed elite....... fook the elite...share the wealth

A DJ · Post by **A DJ** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:52 am

ohh and btw what u mean by flashcards??

is that something thats normal in the USA or what ..i dont get that?

have u read them?

Front Line Assault · Post by **Front Line Assault** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:00 am

my look....

After watching Fahrenheit 9/11 and looking at the Bush presidency. I have come to the conclusion that I am not going to vote for the man. I mean think about it. He took the US to war for no reason. There are no weapons. And I could care less if Saddam was alive or not. Bush ignored the whole Afghanistan thing, even though it was them who attacked the US.

I'll vote for anyone but the shrub.

A DJ · Post by **A DJ** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:03 am

d2 wrote:

"Skull & Crossbones" they exist

"Who invented AIDs ? (hint, hint)" men has invented terrible things, aids could!! be one off them

"War for oil" makes more sense,if at all war is sensible, than war for liberating a country off a evil dictator..... i think with the boycot off goods(medicins for example) they killed more innocent..so why the sudden change?

and if thats the general idea...go liberate N korea....they do human experiments....or china where they can kill students just because they think different......
dont get me wrong ...i think saddam is a very Evil person and should be banned to hell ......
but to say that the U.S went to war over chemical weapons and an evil dictator...is not all true

at least thats why i think......

and a lot more think that

djshiva · Post by **djshiva** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:55 am

hitherto wrote:NEWS FLASH......

Americans (for the most part) don't care what foreigners think. To think that some silly poll would have an effect on the election is ludicrous.

ummm...i don't think anyone thought they could change an election. seems to me they just wanted the opportunity to talk about the issue. calm down.

There is a common conception here that if Americans cared what you Europeans thought, you would all be Nazis.

common? really? cuz i had never heard that particular bit of backwoods nonsense until it came spouting out of your keyboard.

Ummmm.....what does this mean? Is this supposed to mean that Americans are uninformed about the world. No...what is shows is how uninformed you are. Most Americans don't have a passport because the US is huge...you don't need a passport to go from state to state, you don't even need a passport to pass over the Mexican and Canaidian borders.

ummm...what it meant was that since most of us don't have passports, we don't get the opportunity to travel the rest of the world and see that our particular brand of myopic cultural viewpoints are not acceptable anywhere else in the world except in our own misled uneducated heads.

djshiva · Post by **djshiva** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:04 am

hoffman2k wrote:
And just continued building their empire America. with the third reich
as an example on how not to do it.

funny. i was feeling as if maybe they actually took pointers from the third reich on HOW to do it.

I dont know if kerry would be able to clean up this mess the land is in.
While it is obvious that the current president doesn't give a damn about anybody inside of america.

ummm...believe me, he doesn't give a damn about anybody INSIDE of america either. unless you have lots of cash to feed into his little megalomaniacal empire, that is...

BTW who's gonna inspect the WMD's america has?

no shit! our massive stockpiles are the main reason we have nations like iran and north korea working so hard to build nukes. why wouldn't they, when the big dog on the block keeps holding them over everyone else's heads? do a web search for dr. helen caldicott for some great info on the nuclear arms race and the military industrial complex. she's amazing, and if anyone wants a cd of her speaking on the subject, pm me and i will post the mp3...

Alex Reynolds · Post by **Alex Reynolds** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:58 am

If Kerry is the same as Bush, I'm sure the well-educated European snobs on this list won't mind if my friends and I vote for Bush.

Alex Reynolds · Post by **Alex Reynolds** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:00 am

Fingers wrote:And there's no such thing as a British accent. I assume you mean English accent. I won't get upset, you wouldn't understand my accent anyway.

Sorry, but you're wrong. There is such a thing. You can break it down to Welsh, Scottish whatever but it is still a Brit accent. I think I would understand you, but as to whether I would want to...