Arrangement vs. Session

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Post Reply
jrcochranusa
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:11 am

Arrangement vs. Session

Post by jrcochranusa » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:21 pm

When I'm in arrangement view, I can drag in a .wav file and then see it, move it, touch it, squeeze it. When I switch back to session view, I can see that it's playing in the track, but it does not show up as a clip.

When I'm in Session view, I can drag in a .wav file and then see it as a clip, but when I go to arrangement view I can't see it, move it, touch it, squeeze it.

Tone Deft
Posts: 23916
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: SF, CA

Re: Arrangement vs. Session

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:27 pm

strange, isn't it?

at the top center of the Live GUI is a (sometimes) red Back To Arrangement button. when it's red that means Arrange and Session view are telling Live different things. when it's off that means that Arrange view is driving the bus. play with it a bit.

oh, then explore the third view, Clip View, which acts slightly different.
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, POD500HDX, JX305, Nova
soundcloud.com/tone-deft

jrcochranusa
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:11 am

Re: Arrangement vs. Session

Post by jrcochranusa » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:07 pm

Sweet. That worked.

I'm working on a piece in D minor... it's that saddest of all keys you know.

Thanks!

J.C.

jrcochranusa
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:11 am

Re: Arrangement vs. Session

Post by jrcochranusa » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:40 pm

I spoke too soon... it still no workie like I'm expecting it too.

I drag and drop a .wav file onto an audio track, it names the track using the name of my .wav file, it plays, everything is happy. But then I switch over to arrangement view and the track is listed as "1 audio" and I do not see the Wave Form like you would see in clip view or "edit" in ProTools.

I'm missing something simple here aren't I?

nowtime
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:24 pm
Location: Homefree

Re: Arrangement vs. Session

Post by nowtime » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:45 pm

Click on the arrow on the Arrange track to unfold and open up the view. Drag the boundary down to make it bigger. Sounds like a bug that it is still named Audio 1.
Life is Good

8O
Posts: 5502
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:29 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Arrangement vs. Session

Post by 8O » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:46 pm

...
Image

ark
Posts: 1349
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:25 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Arrangement vs. Session

Post by ark » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:58 pm

You are missing something that is fundamental, simple, and confusing all at once.

Each track shows up in both Session and Arrangement views. However, the clips in Session view are always different from the clips in the Arrangement view, even if they contain the same information.

So, for example, if you are in Session view, and you drag a .wav file into an audio track, you have just created a clip that lives in Session view. If you switch to Arrangement view, that clip is not there, because the clips in Session view are different from the clips in Arrangement view. Similarly, if you are in Arrangement view, and you drag a .wav file into an audio track, that clip is not in Session view, for the same reason.

Every track can play at most one clip at any time. So if a track is playing a clip in Session view, it cannot be playing any of the clips in Arrangement view, or vice versa. This fact implies that if you launch a clip in Session view, then switch to Arrangement view, that clip will not be there.

There are two exceptions to this rule. Well, they're not really exceptions, but they kind of look at first like they are.

1) You can drag a clip from the Arrangement to the Session view, and vice versa. You do this by dragging the clip on top of the button in the upper right corner of Live's window that corresponds to whatever view you're not in now. Doing that switches view, and you can now drag the clip to wherever you want it. This is not an exception to the rule because dragging the clip copies it, thereby creating a new clip. The original clip is still where it always was, and the rule is not violated. If you want to move a clip between Session and Arrangement, you should copy it and then delete the original at your convenience.

2) If you are playing a clip or clips in Session view, and the global record button (the one at the top of the Live window near the center with the circle in the middle) is enabled (red), then whatever is being played in any track that is armed for recording gets copied into the Arrangement, creating a new clip for each such track.

Because each track can play only one clip at a time, whenever you launch a clip in Session view, that clip takes over from whatever would be playing in the Arrangement in the corresponding track. By implication, that track is playing something different from what the Arrangement view suggests it should be playing. When this happens, the "Return to Arrangement" button turns red (the button with the three horizontal stripes and the left-pointing arrow) and the corresponding track(s) become gray to show you that what you're seeing is not what's playing. In order to work with that track or tracks in the Arrangement view, you must first click the "Return to Arrangement" button to stop the clips from playing in Session view.

Does this help?

McQ714
Posts: 1851
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:12 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Arrangement vs. Session

Post by McQ714 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:08 pm

you confused the shit out of me and i know the diff between arrangement and session and how to get between the two. regarding your first "exception" comment. it's easier if you just click and hold the clip you want to copy over and hit 'tab' to get to arrangement.

jlgrimes
Posts: 1459
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: Arrangement vs. Session

Post by jlgrimes » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:32 am

McQ714 wrote:you confused the shit out of me and i know the diff between arrangement and session and how to get between the two. regarding your first "exception" comment. it's easier if you just click and hold the clip you want to copy over and hit 'tab' to get to arrangement.
It took me a while to get used to but when you switch between the two frequently:

1. In arrange view, pay attention to the back to arrange button, if it is red it lets you know that Session View is playing on some of the tracks. Pressing the button makes sure every track in arrange view is playing.

2. In Session View, pay attention to the normally pie chart icons, if the icon is a rectangle instead of a Pie chart (some people call them circles), it is playing an Arrangement clip, click on a session clip on that track gets it back going into Session.


All the clip flexibility of Live can lead to confusion at times.

supamonsta
Posts: 2621
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:31 pm
Location: The Lounge
Contact:

Re: Arrangement vs. Session

Post by supamonsta » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:38 am

if the clips were the same in arrangement and session views, updated each when one is changed, live would not be 'live'...

jrcochranusa
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:11 am

Re: Arrangement vs. Session

Post by jrcochranusa » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:05 am

All of the comments in combination with the few brain cells I have left were enough for me to figure out how to do what I wanted to do.

I also now get the difference between the Arrangement View vs. the Session view. Being a heavy ProTools users, I was comparing it to Mix and Edit views.... not quite the same thing.

My goal was to load a click "clip" and an audio "clip", have them in sync, assign them to different outputs, and then use them for live play back. Eventually instead of one "mixed" audio file, I will import the tracks individually assigning them to their own outputs for better control at the front of the house (keys, organ, guitar, vox, etc). Right now I'm bouncing a session from ProTools to a .wav file then importing that for a backing track... so I'm stuck with the levels I had in ProTools.

Ok... so I'm all set. One last comment, Warp is not very user friendly and wasn't even in the ball park when guessing a tempo of a 4/4 song with obvious accents on the 1.

Chisel
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:07 pm

Re: Arrangement vs. Session

Post by Chisel » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:23 am

I just want to say that when I first started using Live, I never touched the Session view. I tried to apply the same methods that I've used in previous sequencers and ignored Session view since I wasn't doing any live performances. This was a big mistake! Once I realized how powerful Session view really is during the initial creation of a song my workflow become so much better. Now I always start a new composition in Session view and then move all the clips to arrangement view for the final arrangement. I definitely recommend spending time using Session view, even if you don't feel like it's necessary. It may surprise you!

Peace \/
chisel316

Post Reply