Ableton Sucks Again..

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Tone Deft
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:27 pm

3phase - that blows. I have no doubt your Live show is more than just playback, if you ever head this way, give me a shout out. :D

I've been working on a large set, fulfilling my dream of having a large set of breakbeats and drums to play with. I've put many many hours into it. then one day I saved it as an 8.1 beta and couldn't use it for a few weeks. I was crushed but learned a hard lesson, ALWAYS save a set in older versions of Live before moving to a new one. I NEVER thought about that before. I rarely ever thought about doing revisions, now it's a top priority.

remind me one day for us to look back at all this and laugh. ;) I don't rely on Live to make a living, it's just a hobby for me, but I can understand your frustration. best of luck!
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, guitars, JX305, Nova
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davepermen
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by davepermen » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:29 pm

robnotrob wrote: Stop being a fanboy and realise the product is too unstable to trust in any professional capacity...
stop being non-reasonable with your numbers and realise there are a LOT of professional artists out there performing with it, again, that weekend. and there are tons of live 8 users (else ableton would be bankrupt by now if no one would've bought it), thousands or more, and if everyone of those would have problems, our forum here would not be flooded by 3phase, but by thousands of different phases.
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Tone Deft
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:33 pm

davepermen wrote:thousands of different phases.
THOUSANDS!!!

goddamn THAT would be a forum!!! lmfao!!!

overload the forum server and burn Ableton HQ to the ground!
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, guitars, JX305, Nova
soundcloud.com/tone-deft

davepermen
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by davepermen » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:33 pm

glitchrock-buddha wrote: I really do not understand what point you are trying to make. Or rather, it's a bit amusing that you defend software based on the fact that it works fine for SOME.
to counter the false-information 3phase and others want to spread that it's unusable for anyone. which it isn't. and i agreed that it IS buggy, ableton did, too. but i don't agree that it's unusable for EVERYONE. it's unusable for SOME. and SOME is NOT EVERYONE. BY FAR NOT.

You base your arguments on the fact that it's working for you. And you even word it as if the fact that it works fine for some makes up for the fact that it does not work for others.
no, it makes up for the fact that 3phase is a lier crying around that it NEVER WORKS FOR ANYONE. massively exxagerating the issue. which is big, yes, but not big enough to completely remove live 8 from any system as else the world dies.

and he posted by now about 10 or 20 or even more threads how it fails to work for him, and everytime he shows how he fails to comply with the requests of ableton to follow their way of fixing an issue TOGETHER. how support works for ANY software out in the world. and does NEVER understand that fixing bugs takes time, etc..

he just wants to make ableton look bad as he got hurt, and he tries to do that very loud.

he's unfair. that's all. ableton live 8 has problems, yes. but he's just massively overreacting and failing to work with them. he only works AGAINST them. that, sir, is not something to accept. because that will never provide the solution he wants, and we want.
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davepermen
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by davepermen » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:34 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
davepermen wrote:thousands of different phases.
THOUSANDS!!!

goddamn THAT would be a forum!!! lmfao!!!

overload the forum server and burn Ableton HQ to the ground!
indeed :)
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

jimyson
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by jimyson » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:17 pm

davepermen wrote:
ableton live 8 has problems, yes. he only works AGAINST them. because that will never provide the solution we want.
This about sums it up. Yes, it sucks but we've all spent our hard earned money to buy into this. It's a done deal. All we can to is help ourselves by helping Ableton. Plain and simple. If you can't accept this then I'm afraid you'll most likely have to switch to another DAW. As far as a refund....I guess you'll be spending loads of time on a class action law suit.

ShelLuser
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by ShelLuser » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:01 am

Another thing to keep in mind when talking about the amount of people who experience issues (either small or severe) and the people where stuff "simply works" is that the first group is more likely to roam the forums than the latter.

IMO discussions about the amounts of people who do or do not have issues are pretty useless since you'll never know for sure. Besides; whats the point of speculation anyway?

Bottom line; some people have issues, some have minor issues and some have no issues at all. If you do have issues where Live crashes its in everyone's behalf to let support know and send them all the information they require (usually a good description of your specs, a good description of what you were doing, a good description of the situation (used any vst's? name them. used a specific configuration? mention it.) and a copy of your Live logfile (Log.txt).

And please re-read what you send them and while doing so just imagine you're talking to a complete n00b who needs to know every detail before he gets it. No offense intended either way, but the most common thing where such reports go wrong is that people assume (usually not even aware of doing so) that the other party knows about the details they're talking about.

IMO that is your best bet to get stuff fixed. Just continuing to start "controversial" (IMO) topics may make you think you're putting the pressure on the company, but it could just as well flip the other way.

Just my 2 cents.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

Jarvisimon
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by Jarvisimon » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:23 am

ShelLuser wrote:continuing to start "controversial" (IMO) topics may make you think you're putting the pressure on the company, but it could just as well flip the other way.

Just my 2 cents.
That's a good two cents worth of useful words were 3phase to listen to them and take them in.

I started a thread when Live 8 was first released regarding its instability, i've still not upgraded from 7 but I am hopeful that soon(ish) their coding team will have gotten it right and i'll be happy to put my money down (though most likely it will be Live 9 Suite by the time I do it).

Personally, I shouldn't think the Ableton team are overly bothered with 3phase's posts, he rarely makes any valid arguments, "I think it's s*it" or words to that effect aren't particularly clever neither will they help out in any positive way but I suppose if 3phase isn't a helpful or positive person in real life, then it's hardly surprising that his posts are any different.

I should imagine their real concern is for people proven to be very helpful and keen advocates of Live in the past and who are experiencing problems with their particular configuration.

I don't like blind fanboy optimism but constant bashing in a negative fashion is far worse and very immature to boot.

3phase
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by 3phase » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:53 am

I should be scared of pressure back from Ableton?
You are joking

Actually ableton is rather lucky that no bigger harm was done thru the bugs...
Especially in a situation where the ceo has stated stability in public before .. "live is totaly stable..."
One might take that as an official sales argument.

Just imagine what would have happened if one of my audience would have lost the hearing because of the the 32bit bug..

a bug that created a monster loud peaks when playing a 32 bit file after a 16 bit file...

still dont know why this peak was so damn loud because my daw output is usually close to clipping anyway..
but this spike over a 20 K pa was mean... very mean... people stopped dancing at once, big party.. filled floor..everbody stopped...many had pain in the eyes..

A nasty little bug.. once you know that you cant use 32 bit files on stage easy to avoid..but before you know a dangerous thing..

Just hypothetical..when such a bug realy hurts the audience... one or more person loose theier ability to hear..

who is responsible than? the artist whose laptop created the spike? The pa company that had too slow limiters installed? The organizer of the event?
The Victim itself because being to close to the speaker cabinets? Or the software company, that had excluded all responsibility in the licence contract ?

Probably there is no danger for the software company.. otherwise i would be surprised how slow and cold blooded ableton was regarding finding this bug themself after i had reported it.. even after i provided the info that it happens by playing 32 bit files after 16 bit files.. no reaktion..

the only reason the 32 bit bug is solved now is that in this case i ve seen my responsebilty to fight abletons "brasil" system and make them realising the bug.. because this one was a danger for all the people out there... not only for the performnace itself

Would be like leaving a sharp broken glass on the beach when you have seen it...

however..was such a hard piece of work to make them look into it...
i provided a file to reproduce it..no reaktion.. only when i posted it in the main forum the finaly agreed to look into it..
and finaly fixed it... a bug that probably was even older than L8


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ShelLuser
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by ShelLuser » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:26 am

3phase wrote:A nasty little bug.. once you know that you cant use 32 bit files on stage easy to avoid..but before you know a dangerous thing..

Just hypothetical..when such a bug realy hurts the audience... one or more person loose theier ability to hear..

who is responsible than? the artist whose laptop created the spike? The pa company that had too slow limiters installed? The organizer of the event?
The Victim itself because being to close to the speaker cabinets? Or the software company, that had excluded all responsibility in the licence contract ?
Just hypothetical as well here: Perhaps the performer who didn't prepare in depth enough to spot all common glitches before hand? Its not uncommon to do sound checks.


About to the issue which I tried to get across.. Scared of Ableton? Naah, this is speculating on my part but I don't think they work like some "people are numbers" kind of company. However, raise the pressure too much and I think they might just as well stop caring altogether about whatever some people tell them because they could get the impression that there's simply no pleasing that crowd whatever they do. Some sort of "Peter and the wolf" kind of scenario.

For the record: I'm not pointing this specifically at you. I used your quote to comment on, which I did, but my comments about the whole tendency are meant globally.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

Dennis DeSantis
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:29 am

Just a reminder: we're working on the bugs. In fact, this is the current project for our entire development team.

There's not much more that can be said right now. If you're having crashes with the current versions of Live, and you are depending on it for live performance, then it's probably best to consider an alternative solution until things are working better for you.

Best

starving student
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by starving student » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:11 am

Dennis you're a beast cool as kojack, I want some more tutorials on how to use Live creatively from you like how you did with abusing the groove features!!!!!!!!!!

3phase
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by 3phase » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:13 am

Dennis DeSantis wrote:Just a reminder: we're working on the bugs. In fact, this is the current project for our entire development team.

There's not much more that can be said right now. If you're having crashes with the current versions of Live, and you are depending on it for live performance, then it's probably best to consider an alternative solution until things are working better for you.

Best

Thats great..and the last betas seem to finaly stabelize the thing... but my live season starts in 5 weeks.

And between the lines you state that there will be no official release before end of march..wright?

So i will be on stage with a beta version again?


The question is not if i have crashes now.. the question is if i will have crashes in 5 weeks...
Thats the problem.. will the future betas be more stable? or is this one step forward 2 steps backward game to be continued?


Even when the latest betas are the first versions of L8 where the slight feeling of no trouble comes back..they are just betas...
And theese betas expire...

IS ther any way to get a working older beta from you when a newer one shows problems?

Actually in the moment i would prefer if you make the betas unofficial but not timelimited releases or have the timelimit much wider stretched... not so tight sceduled that you get the new beta up just in time... or evetually too late...


For the user its better to go with a buggy predictable version on stage that only crashes when known things are done...than using a new beta that has solved the old issues but might crash on a random or yet unknown base anytime..

I really dont like to go with betas on stage... But with L8 you are forced to do that all the time...

I can work with L8 as its now..with the betas...
But can i risk to go on stage with it when ableton is not trusting them enough to do a version release by now?

Its nice that you take your time... but in this situation its a bit much of a time.. L8.11 is by far more buggy than the actual betas and even knowing that you made an official releas out of it .

So one in between release with naming known bugs is more worthy for the users than eitehr a buggy L8.11 or the most actual unpredictable beta
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LOFA
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by LOFA » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:22 am

Dennis DeSantis wrote: If you're having crashes with the current versions of Live, and you are depending on it for live performance, then it's probably best to consider an alternative solution until things are working better for you.

Best
Painful words. I have been working towards a performance that is coming up in a little over a month. Hopefully the year I have invested into this live-specific project won't just be scratched.

Obviously I don't need to remind anyone how frustrating this situation is, but I have developed a heavier interest in beer over the last week.

Go team!!!

I'll go have another beer in your honor...

3dot...
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by 3dot... » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:23 am

davepermen wrote:"we all know 8 is battered.."
except for all those WHERE IT WORKS?

yes, there are problems for SOME, and there are too much problems. but for very many, there AREN'T really problems.
I highly doubt that...
it's probably more like this:
SOME people are not really creating crash scenarios...
cuz it's pretty well documented that live8 IS ultra-buggy ....
crashing way too much for a live performance app...
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