Ableton Sucks Again..

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
3dot...
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by 3dot... » Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:38 pm

3dot... wrote:
robleighton22 wrote:
3dot... wrote: I highly doubt that...
it's probably more like this:
SOME people are not really creating crash scenarios...
cuz it's pretty well documented that live8 IS ultra-buggy ....
crashing way too much for a live performance app...
i find 8.1.1 fine.
what's your system specs?
..and what's your average set track count (including aux)?
any 3rd party vsts ?
bump...this really interests me..
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Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:52 am

Personally Live is my third major DAW, I would never think of relying 100% on one company for stability ever again. MOTU and Digital Performer, in 2000, stable enough, but not as Stable as Emagic Logic, then BAM! Logic 7 is a bug ridden mess for me and Live becomes my DAW of choice, but IMO Live has always had some issues and no DAW company I've ever dealt with is immune to problems. Live is a great DAW, but all DAWs go through periods where stability is compromised by major changes in my experience. DP was compromised by Intel/OSX, Logic I'm not so sure about, but is was right after Apple bought them, and people were talking about how Garage Band had features that Logic didn't have etc. same team of developers etc. Live seems to have been compromised by Max/MSP integration issues and particular set ups.

This is so common, every DAW has a release that snags some users in bugs, my lesson learned is to have more than one option..... and not upgrade to 8 when I wasn't happy with the beta's stability. I'm not saying don't be upset or hold Ableton to a higher standard than the rest, but realize that from my own experience, it's not productive to wait for things to get fixed. DP7, DSP Quattro and Mainstage 2 offer at least track playback and instrument hosting on the mac side. I'm sure there are plenty of options on PC. When Live is stable again for most all, jump back. Product loyalty is retarded unless you're getting money from said company, and even then it's silly.

3phase
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by 3phase » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:46 am

Machinesworking wrote:Personally Live is my third major DAW, I would never think of relying 100% on one company for stability ever again. MOTU and Digital Performer, in 2000, stable enough, but not as Stable as Emagic Logic, then BAM! Logic 7 is a bug ridden mess for me and Live becomes my DAW of choice, but IMO Live has always had some issues and no DAW company I've ever dealt with is immune to problems. Live is a great DAW, but all DAWs go through periods where stability is compromised by major changes in my experience. DP was compromised by Intel/OSX, Logic I'm not so sure about, but is was right after Apple bought them, and people were talking about how Garage Band had features that Logic didn't have etc. same team of developers etc. Live seems to have been compromised by Max/MSP integration issues and particular set ups.

This is so common, every DAW has a release that snags some users in bugs, my lesson learned is to have more than one option..... and not upgrade to 8 when I wasn't happy with the beta's stability. I'm not saying don't be upset or hold Ableton to a higher standard than the rest, but realize that from my own experience, it's not productive to wait for things to get fixed. DP7, DSP Quattro and Mainstage 2 offer at least track playback and instrument hosting on the mac side. I'm sure there are plenty of options on PC. When Live is stable again for most all, jump back. Product loyalty is retarded unless you're getting money from said company, and even then it's silly.

you are wright that all major daw´s had times of flaws.. and computer os´s had time of flaws..

difference.. the other daw´s allways allowed to safe projekts in an older file format.. so you wasnt traped there !!

That is the actual main issue in the actual mess.. its not only buggy.. you are trapped to deal with that...

and to do permanent beta testing by running the most actual betas because they are the versions that create the smallest pain..

and... instead fixing all the bugs first max for live was integrated on top of that.. L8 was problematic enough.. but seemed to be stable for a bigger amount of users than the mfl version ... But for some users it was unstable..
That was actually the overseen warning that there was something screwed in the interna.. bugs that only matterd on certain computer models? With apples a pretty strange fact i never have heard about before.. at least not with daw´s
And random crashes... nasty and not easy to reproduce bugs... warning enough? not for Ableton.. a bug not delivered to the brasil support in a reproducable form was considred as user error..

So they did a major upgrade and software plug of a complex thing like max on top of that shoddy base?
Brave try... but wasnt that a bit blind?

I was intensevly beta testing at the time of the mfl launch..the betas was really bad the day before release.. i was astonished how they managed to cure all the strange bugs over night,..

but in fact they just wasnt cured..


However..

we are one year later now and its stil not working for all users..

Live is ment as a stage software.. that says that it has to have a higher standard of stability than the mean daw that can be equiped with an autosafe or recovery to avoid dataloss..

on stage the show must go on... the roof burns.. but your daw is still running

Sorry.. i am dealing with the problems related to music software since the 80´s.. not only in my own studio..
i had to deal with the instalation in many studios.. pro studios..tv stations...


this is the biggest mess i personaly ever came along.. the highest bug rate ever, at least i think so.. when you copy the list of all the fixes done during L8 development you probably would qualify for the guiness book..
and the associated very long struggle to fix it.. t

But thanks to the trusty fan base and the monopol situation on pattern based audio sequencing they probably will get out of it pretty undamaged...
In case they get it wright somehow soon... the word is spreading quickly now..
I havent took my complains into external forums..
but others do
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:18 am

3phase wrote:this is the biggest mess i personaly ever came along.. the highest bug rate ever, at least i think so..
For me, on my system, Logic 7.0 crashed when I got up to get a cup of coffee, without the sequence running. I uninstalled all Audio Units and it still crashed... Logic 4 never crashed on me, and I was dead set on making Logic work, lost months to frustration before using Live more. Sorry to hear about your issues with it, I'm certain Ableton are aware of them by now, my advice is again to not rely only on one DAW. It simply isn't as hard as people make it out to be to learn another one. If You're strung out on Session View, Tractor and the like offer at least remix capabilities, and there's nothing stopping you from running stand alone VST instruments for performance along with Tractor. :)

Or just bite the bullet and use 7 like I do. Some parts of music writing aren't fun, and porting is one. I think Ableton really do need to think long and hard about having a "save as Live 7, or 6 Project" feature! (hint Digital Performer has had this forever!) but for now, putting in the hours is all you can do, besides venting that is.

starving student
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by starving student » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:13 am

shoot if session is givin you grief step up to maschine and wait for your live issues to get resolved

LoopStationZebra
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by LoopStationZebra » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:23 am

Yup. I used to come up with smarmy responses and quips and jabs whenever some douchebag used to post that Live wasn't working for them.

Oh the poor fool who didn't know how to work the software. Wasn't familiar enough with hardware integration. Clueless about their OS or components. Oh the retard who couldn't seem to get even the most basic set to run without crashes. I read all the reasons ("not my fault", "haven't changed a thing", "blah blah blah") with a wry look on my face. Pity the asswipe who didn't save often enough, or had entirely dumped the last version because the new was stable.

Yup. Fun times they were, indeed. The Best, in fact. Doubly so when the poster had a reputation for insanity and nonstop bitching. Those threads were the most enjoyable. Like shooting fish in a barrel, it was Oh So Easy to blast the chap to smithereens and how smugly self-satisfied I felt afterwards. Good times, lads. Good times.

Sadly I'll no longer be able to join in the fun because I'm now on the other side of the fence, but I shall look over longingly and with a wispy look and a tear in my eye. Remembering the good times. The good times. Good times.

So keep those smarmy comments 'a comin, boys. I'll be with you in spirit at the very least.

:cry: :cry: :oops: :cry:

(does anyone have a tissue?)
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

djsynchro
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by djsynchro » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:08 pm

3phase wrote:and what will b5 bring?
A user called "3phase" whining about it on the forum

90's child
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by 90's child » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:45 pm

3phase wrote:You are forced to use the beta because the overbuggy state of live and than the beta runs out in the middle of a session with no new one avaible?


Ok.. we leave the studio now.. go to a bar..and send the bill to ableton...

So now its Ableton's fault that you bought a shit computer?

3phase
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by 3phase » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:34 pm

djsynchro wrote:
3phase wrote:and what will b5 bring?
A user called "3phase" whining about it on the forum

wasnt you the r..... that called live totaly stable one year ago? :mrgreen: why dont you call yourself dj competence...would sound much more competent than synchro.. synchro.. the dj who manages it to synchronize 2! records.. wow...
do you use life for this task?
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

3phase
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by 3phase » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:37 pm

90's child wrote:
3phase wrote:You are forced to use the beta because the overbuggy state of live and than the beta runs out in the middle of a session with no new one avaible?


Ok.. we leave the studio now.. go to a bar..and send the bill to ableton...

So now its Ableton's fault that you bought a shit computer?

its not a shitty computer for live 7, logic, reaktor and any other software i tried sofar.. its just a standard macbook with the TI firewire chipset...

not a bad model to go for at all IMO
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

john doe by choice
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by john doe by choice » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:16 pm

Dude, for all the time you spend on trying to make live 8 work, added up with the time that it spends not working and the extra time you spend bitching in shitty english about the whole thing, you're wasting a lot of time.

Obviously, your bitching about it isn't making the process move any faster.

On top of that, how can you say you're locked into live 8 after having little success even keeping the program open? Did you make the rookie mistake of not making backups of all of your live 7 files?

Just ask for the fucking refund already, get your money back for your upgrade, and go back to 7, when everything was working for you. Everybody is tired of you whining and getting nowhere with it, you sound like Timur (only more whiny and less intelligent, which is difficult to pull off, I must say), and you will NEVER be compensated by Ableton for the time and effort you say you've lost, meaning that all of your bitching is for nothing other than to be bitching (on top of the fact that they don't owe you squat, anyway, since you won't give them complete reports due to your "secret sauce setup").

Real professional musicians, who tour out constantly and require that gig money to live on, they would never put up with this shit, but that doesn't mean they spend every waking hour bitching; that means that they don't wait for a software company to come up with a solution, they come up with a solution that works, even if it's not as ideal as what a software company promises their product can do, and they roll with that solution until something better presents itself. That means that they don't base their entire setup on something that isn't consistent and doesn't work in practice...think about all of those people out there who say they use live; do you really think all of them had to cancel tours because Live 8 was unstable? Hell no! They put together some other hardware rig, or jumped on with Serato, or kept using an older version of Live, or something else, and you know what, they still tour, and no one in the audience gives a shit if they are using Live 8 or Live 7, because the audience still gets to party, and that's what it boils down to.

Live 8 will not stop clubs from filling up, it won't stop people from buying booze and dancing, and a functional version will not make you a fucking DJ superstar, and if you made the rookie mistake of updating all of your 7 files when you got 8 without making a backup for them, then you made the mistake, not Live, and I know for a fact that the program warned you about that. It's time to get over your mistake of buying/trusting something you shouldn't have bought/trusted without serious testing first (like any major artist would do).

You want to be a real artist? Find some other way to sell beer/make people dance, other than trying to rely on something that doesn't work for you - better people than you have been doing that for decades, and it's worked for them.

3phase's "statement of entitlement" written in shitty english and poor attitude to be posted in 3....2....1....

LOFA
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by LOFA » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:35 pm

It seems pretty clear that this is the thread for letting off steam about the current state of Live. So, however accurate your post was, John, it is trolling in relation to the thread, imo.

Arguably this thread could be put in "the lounge". It takes a certain confidence and integrity that ableton seem to have to leave it here.

romanh
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by romanh » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:38 pm

""""""""""NO CRACKS NO PROBLEMS"""""""""""""""
ps.
I f**ck you SUCK

LOFA
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by LOFA » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:41 pm

ShelLuser wrote:
LOFA wrote:It seems pretty clear that this is the thread for letting off steam about the current state of Live. So, however accurate your post was, John, it is trolling in relation to the thread, imo.
IMO the whole thread started as a troll. Letting of steam is quite different from simply spouting of that a whole company (or their product) sucks because one of their beta versions crashed.

And well, if people are allowed to let off some steam about their frustrations I'd say its only fair game for those people spotting inconsistencies to let off steam about their frustrations as well.
Sure. This thread is completely ridiculous, but after all of the whining over the years it seems more tempting to indulge in this one- by comparison this one seems so much more appropriate that it almost seems to justify it. It's not though. It's a waste of time. My post was as immature as John's words are probably ineffective at this point.

People banding together to bash a frustrated user are just as silly as a frustrated user acting up. Imo.

My interest in this thread popped up when another poster complained about C++ runtime errors and crashing Live via deleting devices. It took on a new form for me: What sucks about the current state of live. And, since my employer has a vested long-term interest in M4L, personally I need to know what is not working and I don't have the option of going back to an older version.

john doe by choice
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Re: Ableton Sucks Again..

Post by john doe by choice » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:05 pm

LOFA wrote:People banding together to bash a frustrated user are just as silly as a frustrated user acting up. Imo.
I want to say that no one here is "banding together" - this isn't some planned attack, or anything like that; I haven't read much of this thread, and can only barely read 3phases writing, since it doesn't make sense, aside from the general atmosphere of complaining that he brings to the table. I only recently looked in this thread, and see all of these massive posts by 3phase, and without even reading them in their entirety, I know that it's bullshit, which is why I wrote what I wrote - it had nothing to do with anyone else, just the fact that he is being naive about all of this, and needs to spend his time more constructively than using it to complain on a forum.

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