being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

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oratowsky
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being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by oratowsky » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:31 am

The other day I finished playing a dj set to a packed club, I got a huge response out of this crowd and was feeling generally really excellent. 2 hour set and I'm exhausted. As usual there are a few people interested in what's going on behind the decks and this one guy comes up to me to ask me about my setup. I tell him I'm running Ableton with a midi controller and that is how I mix. He responds "oh, so you're not really djing then?" I ask him what he means by that and he says "real DJs don't use Ableton, mate." I have to say it made a dent in my night.

This isn't the first time I've encountered such an attitude. If i have time, my usual response is "then why do such huge, successful, artists such as deadmau5, Justice, Daft Punk, Vitallic, and Felix Cartal use it and swear by it?" Someone else told me on another occasion that "there's no technique in using Ableton, you just press play". I say, if you're not worrying about beat matching with decks or other non automatic beat matching system, aren't you left with more brain power to actually think about your mix and the music? let alone the huge flexibility, power, and customisability of the ableton interface?

Anybody else encountered this? How have you responded?

Tone Deft
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:48 am

had that happen to me and I wasn't even DJing. I went behind the booth because I needed to mess with a computer. this idiot from NYC starts yelling at me "Traktor sucks" over and over. the more I ignored him the more he yelled. a friend came by and said I was just wrenching on the computer and Winamp was playing. I stood up and just stared the guy down. the fuck then started to argue with my friend about how many speakers we had up in our 7.2 Ambisonic sound installation.

best to just blow them off, there's no winning. "if someone gives you a gift and you don't accept it, it's still theirs." there are a lot of comebacks but there's no winning. you hear someone like that you just understand he's an ass, pet him on the head and let him go on his way.

then again DJs don't even play their own music, what's the danger or excitement in playing a record? ;) see, it never ends.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

synnack
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by synnack » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:02 am

I would have replied with "well, do real DJs do this?" and pulled out my dick and pee'd randomly all over the place.

yes. random pee solves all.
Last edited by synnack on Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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fisto
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by fisto » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:27 am

tempus3r wrote:
yes. random pee solves all.
....that's the sentence of the day man :lol:

Trypset
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Trypset » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:29 am

I've also had this situation arise....too many time to count. Basically, who cares cuz you are the one getting paid, or hired, or booked to play what your mind wants to hear, so eff the haters.

IMO you aren't really DJing when mixing tracks off Ableton. You are mixing tracks off Ableton....

It really comes down to what "DJ" means to everyone. And that is contstantly different. When I play a set off 1200's with a crate of wax I feel that I am DJing in the traditional sense. Actually jockeying disc of wax back and forth. I have to concentrate on matching beats, dropping tracks at the exact right moment, and riding the pitch to keep from wrecking. None of those skills are used in an Ableton "DJ" set. Also many times your entire library is already in view, whereas a TT DJ will have to dig for the next track. Withouth having to concentrate on those aspects many new interesting things can arise via Ableton.

Do you think you are a real DJ? Have you ever DJed off decks in the dark in front of 100's of people having to dig through your crate with no light? I don't know the guy in question but that is probably where he is coming from. The oppurtunity for serious vibe ending mistakes, i.e. trainwrecking, is at a real minimum whilst DJing off Ableton so the oldschool DJ heads will voice their opinion every time.

I could really care less what the dude on stage is doing as long as I am dancing and am kept dancing.

So my moral is, fuck the haters in the crowd, they are in the crowd, and there will always be people hating, especially the better you do.
TrypseT
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Trypset
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Trypset » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:36 am

also, how are you labeling yourself for promotion?

Are you DJ (insert alias here) or are you just your alias without the prefix of DJ. When I see DJ so and so on a flyer, they better be mixing off decks, or I will be dissapointed. This all does come down to personal opinion so I would worry about it too much.
TrypseT
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funky shit
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by funky shit » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:42 am

These "ableton isnt really djing" people are cocks and should remove themselves from club nights."

OH im sorry, please tell me what other media device i should play other peoples tunes on.
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Trypset
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Trypset » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:48 am

funky shit wrote:These "ableton isnt really djing" people are cocks and should remove themselves from club nights."

OH im sorry, please tell me what other media device i should play other peoples tunes on.
I totally agree with that, but I think where these cocks are coming from is the actual skillsket involed with making the vibe happen.
TrypseT
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4.33
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by 4.33 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:10 am

Trypset wrote:. When I see DJ so and so on a flyer, they better be mixing off decks, or I will be dissapointed.
what's the bloody difference?
in both cases you just put on other people tunes, be it from your record bag or your hard drive.
what's so sacred about riding the pitch fader?
utter fucking bollocks

Migra
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Migra » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:13 am

Trypset wrote:also, how are you labeling yourself for promotion?

Are you DJ (insert alias here) or are you just your alias without the prefix of DJ. When I see DJ so and so on a flyer, they better be mixing off decks, or I will be dissapointed. This all does come down to personal opinion so I would worry about it too much.
I'm agree with this and this is actually the solution to the dilema, just take off the prefix DJ and leave only your name or artist name and call 'Ableton Live' your instrument (not your turntable(s)), so when this situation happens, you will simply have to answer: "Who said I'm djing moth&%$#@????..... I'm PLAYING!!!!!"
:roll: :lol: :mrgreen:
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davepermen
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by davepermen » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:30 am

yeah, tell them you're more advanced than the ordinary dj :) and then .. pee on them :) i like that :)
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mode:masters
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by mode:masters » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:33 am

Heard this all before.

Just say to them "well then, if it's so easy, you have a go...." and see how far they get.

Punters that diss the people providing them with entertainment can go jump.

Trypset
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Trypset » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:38 am

4.33 wrote:
Trypset wrote:. When I see DJ so and so on a flyer, they better be mixing off decks, or I will be dissapointed.
what's the bloody difference?
in both cases you just put on other people tunes, be it from your record bag or your hard drive.
what's so sacred about riding the pitch fader?
utter fucking bollocks
dude come on, playing warped tracks that are pre-arranged that you made in a cafe requires way less effort and skill than beatmatching records. But if that is your perspective there is no convincing you. The difference is so huge that there is no point for me to continue my argument. What's sacred to me about riding the pitch fader is that there is always the possibility of fucking up the mix. When everything is aligned on a grid that possibility is slim to none. The outcome most definately will be close to the same no matter what medium, but that is not the point I was even trying to make.

You can't deny that fluid beatmatching in a loud as hell club with shitty or no monitors is comparable to launching pre-warped clips. Or maybe you can who knows.

I am not for one side or another as I get booked to play wax and DJ, err mix, off ableton, they are seperate sets that sound totally different. I was merely trying to help the OP understand why he might be getting such comments, but maybe he already knew why and wanted to make a thread to get others opinions.
TrypseT
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Pitch Black
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Pitch Black » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:00 am

You think thats bad? how about spending oooh, 20 years learning music, learning to engineer and produce, developing performance skills and techniques, writing my own tunes, then trucking out 100kg of equipment to gigs to play a 100% original set of live electronica... and some punter comes up afterward to compliment me on my "DJ styles".

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Yup... I merely chose from the collective output of the world's best music, brought it here, and pressed play. [/sarcasm] Somewhat frustrating.


Still... a compliment's a compliment I suppose...

RCUS
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by RCUS » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:11 am

I think it's HOW you are using Ableton that defines whether you are DJing, not IF you use Ableton. That's a blanket statement.

Not to self promote but check the vid I just did for a contest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sAff5WS740

Two Decks mixed with a crossfader? check (4 times deck A and 4 times deck B)
Drops in time? check
EQ ing? check (BentoSans smart mixer AND traditional EQ-ing)

I think this falls somewhere between mimicing traditional DJing and controllerism. But to have someone claim that it's impossible to screw up what I'm doing in that vid and there's no skill is fucking absurd. I screwed up plenty of times practicing the arrangement, effects, transitions and juggles.

I vote piss, but on that guys girlfriend if he had one :)

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