being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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luv2spin31
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by luv2spin31 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:35 pm

it doesn't matter what you use as long as you can rock a gawddamn party. that same statement is the same as

"DJs are not real musician"
"music is like photography. it's all in the rhythm of expression."

Trypset
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Trypset » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:42 pm

luv2spin31 wrote:it doesn't matter what you use as long as you can rock a gawddamn party. that same statement is the same as

"DJs are not real musician"
well they aren't, they are DJs

less they be be droppin tracks they produced.
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RonaldDumsfeld
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by RonaldDumsfeld » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:47 pm

One of my favourite times in a club is what the Dj drops a clanger and everyone shouts' fackin' sort it 'ar you kant' Always puts a smile on my face.

ill-legal?
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by ill-legal? » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:58 pm

Warning: Excessive background rambling leading up to my point...please feel free to skip ahead to the last paragraph or two.

----------------------------------------

I’ve always found amusement in these debates, because I’ve seen most angles from a personal level. My initial infatuation with dj’ing was a result of my admiration for turntablists and the art of scratching/beat juggling. Further down the line I was exposed to some great house music and jungle as a result of growing up in the Chicago area, and eventually I sold my electric guitar and started saving up for turntables so that I could try and master the skills of the dj’s that I looked up to, guys who could flawlessly mix AND scratch. It was a huge investment, I saved my pennies for several years until I could afford a legit setup, and then once I had my prized Technics I practically locked myself in a room for a year trying to teach myself (this was before Youtube tutorials and instructional dvd’s were readily available). Eventually I began playing out, and I continued to improve.

Then CDJ’s hit the industry, and as a dj who learned “the old fashioned way”, I was very resistant of this new technology. I STILL hate Pioneer cd decks with their dull, lifeless platter,and it wasn’t until Denon released their S5000 model with an actual rotating platter that I broke down and decided to give it a try. And you know what? They were pretty f’in cool. Now all of a sudden I had access to a whole new wealth of tracks that weren’t available on vinyl, and this opened up some new creative doors for me as well.

Next up was the “Serato revolution”, and what ultimately convinced me to succumb to this technological breakthrough was seeing turntablists such as Craze and Klever not only adapt to the medium, but play absolutely stellar sets with their trademark cuts still fully in tact.
Now just as before, when my friends started getting into Ableton I resisted. I looked at it the way a lot of dj’s who grew up using vinyl did…i.e. no beatmatching = cheating. I clung to this belief for years, and while I could respect the flexibility it gave to, say, a producer who could now rearrange and reproduce his tracks on the fly to create a unique performance every time, I never saw much of a reason to use this as a dj tool. As a matter of fact, I remember one particular instance way back when I learned that one of my favorite dj’s did all of his radio mixes via a computer and software, and feeling totally devastated to learn that these flawless mixes weren’t done by traditional means.

After much debate, a buddy of mine convinced me to try it and perform a set with him, so I bought a trigger finger and gave it a whirl. And you know what? I love it! It allows me to drop all sorts of loops, samples, accapellas, and incorporate new effects into my sets. I can run four tracks simultaneously without having to worry whether or not the promoter has a 4 turntable setup at the venue. I can tap out my own drumbeat on my trigger pads to accentuate another beat that’s already playing. I can do things that a traditional dj setup would never accommodate, and I still have sooooo much to learn, but I definitely see the light.

Trust me when I say, I can understand why people have this animosity…especially those who still play vinyl. The startup cost is nothing in comparison to a proper dj setup, and with all the pirated software, you can buy a capable laptop for the cost of ONE turntable, a $3 RCA to 1/8th inch cable, a basic controller for under $100, download a cracked copy of Ableton and call yourself a “dj”. I remember being terribly annoyed when Numark came out with that lame interface that you could plug two iPods into and mix with (even more infuriating was the fact that the first version had NO pitch control!), because to me, this meant more people calling themselves dj’s who had no true concept of the actual art form, and much less, hadn’t “paid their dues”. These kids never had to dig through bins upon bins of crappy vinyl to find the perfect track. They never had to lug three crates to a gig just to ensure that they had enough music to choose from. They never had to make the decision to sell off other beloved equipment, or work for three long, hot summers to be able to afford turntables. They never had to devote hours of their lives to learning how to manually match two records. At times, this still grates on my nerves but for the most part, I’ve moved past it. You can choose to keep up with technology (or give it your best attempt at least), or be left in the dust. Last time I checked, the "Keeping It Real 2010" tour didn't have any dates lined up yet. These days, my mindset is more about how can I put on the best set with whatever tools I have. Hell, if you can MacGuyver an amazing set out of a used condom, a leftover porkchop, and a Casio keyboard, then more power to you! As previously stated, fuck the haters. And next time, piss on them if they get feisty. If I found myself in the same situation as the OP, my response would have been to grab a scratch record (my trusty Super Seal!) and drop a few cuts, THEN take a piss on the dbag and his girlfriend.
Last edited by ill-legal? on Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Salty P
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Salty P » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:05 pm

ill-legal? wrote:Warning: Excessive background rambling leading up to my point...please feel free to skip ahead to the last paragraph or two.

Was there a point? :lol:

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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by H20nly » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:08 pm

Salty P wrote:Was there a point? :lol:
DJs the world over have been asking themselves this question since 1995

ill-legal?
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by ill-legal? » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:18 pm

Salty P wrote:
ill-legal? wrote:Warning: Excessive background rambling leading up to my point...please feel free to skip ahead to the last paragraph or two.

Was there a point? :lol:
eh, kind of. Really I'm just bored at my slave job and this helped me to kill about 30 more minutes of my miserable day. :)

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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by hacktheplanet » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:26 pm

EVERYONE can be a DJ! All you have to do is load up iTunes and hit play! Bingo, you're technically a DJ.

These are all DJs:
1. Paul Oakenfold, crossfading an epic track over and then going around the corner to blow coke (repeat 20 times in an hour)
2. DJ Fucknutz, doing some kick ass scratching over hip hop beats to the breakers during lunch period
3. DJ FORMAT, beat juggling mashup with a shitload of effects in Live 8
4. DJ Theodore, playing off of a Genius playlist for a completely packed bar of completely wasted frat boys
5. American Wedding DJ Service, playing the chicken dance for senior citizens and 5 year olds

It's all semantics. The only real measure of a DJs skill is how hard they can rock a party with the right track selection. Fuck technical ability, and geek can figure that out.
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by H20nly » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:32 pm

^ :lol:

you forgot
6. DJ Betty sitting in the passenger seat changing the station and dropping CDs on her drunk ass lap and between/under the seats
7. DJ Surf rockin a cool XM station while he tries to find something to watch.

Trypset
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Trypset » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 pm

dj fucknutz....lol
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by RCUS » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:42 pm

H20nly wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:DJs rambling on and on about how aloof and misunderstood they are...

excuse me while I go hurl.

nobody loves a DJ more than themselves. :roll:

move over.

i give myself hugs DAILY! :D

really, too much MTV is to blame. i would be a lead guitar player in some awesome band, but this damn dislexia just won't let me unleash my inner Vai, and I fumble the notes.

i'm still trying to figure out how to suspend myself, my APC40, my MIDI Fighter, and my Laptop over the crown for my "solos". that way me and my gear will be ABOVE the minions, as it should be....LMAO!

all jokes aside, if you're on stage performing it IS about you. people show up to see YOU. i see nothing wrong with doing it for the love of both what you do, and your fans, which in a way does lead to you "loving" yourself. if there is something inherently wrong in that quest, please enlighten us oh naysayers. i suppose i could just wallow in my emo-hipster-anti establishment sefl pity, playing nothing but "underground" parties and "staying true to the scene" but really, thats so 1998 to me and i'm kind of over that.

i would be hard pressed to find a musician that doesn't do it for the "love". and if they do, they are no longer a musician in my mind. perhaps i am not seasoned enough, but the thought of "only 30 more minutes until I get my paycheck" while doing some sort of beat juggle or tweaking an effect has never crossed my mind. when it does i will know that its clearly time to move onto something else in life.

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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by fsk » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:22 pm

I teamed up with my friend and we played a 2 hour show filled with a mixture of our own tunes with tons of knob twiddling and button bashing and mixed with released tunes.... Girl came up to us and told us we sounded like Josh Wink... I didn't like that :( but she was hot so we let it fly D:
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by RCUS » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:04 am

fsk wrote:I teamed up with my friend and we played a 2 hour show filled with a mixture of our own tunes with tons of knob twiddling and button bashing and mixed with released tunes.... Girl came up to us and told us we sounded like Josh Wink... I didn't like that :( but she was hot so we let it fly D:
LOL! so basically she coulda said "you guys sound like Yani" and you woulda been like hell yeah!

i'm right there with you hahahaa.

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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by RonaldDumsfeld » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:34 am


smutek
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by smutek » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:39 am

As if it isn't enough to get ragged on by actual musicians us Dj's now have to fight amongst ourselves regarding what constitutes a "real dj". Outside of having a fun discussion on this forum the bottom line and the best advice is this bit here by my sometimes nemesis but always old friend:
Tone Deft wrote: best to just blow them off
The reason I say that is because when you weigh this:
oratowsky wrote:...I finished playing a dj set to a packed club, I got a huge response out of this crowd and was feeling generally really excellent....
Against this:
oratowsky wrote: ...he says "real DJs don't use Ableton, mate."
The only question that you should be asking yourself is "why did I let this douche bag put a dent in my otherwise killer night".

See, at some point us silly DJ's got it in our heads that it was all about us, and not about the party. Shit went really bad when the cats at the parties started thinking the same thing. Next thing you know the superstar dj and the christ pose was born and now you've got Ken Doll's playing epic trance records in football stadiums in front of 20,000 starry eyed tards waving their lighters in the air, as if John Lennon had just come back from the dead to perform "Love" one last time.

It's bullshit.

Seriously though, if you rocked a packed house and the folks there danced their asses off and had a sweaty good time you did something right, because that's all that matters. Next time someone says that to you just remember that you just rocked the party, not them, smile and part ways.

Don't let idiots get you down, keep on bro.

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