being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
outershpongolia
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by outershpongolia » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:52 pm

"You see me right now, but your bitch will see me later motha' fucka'!"

That's what I'd say..

Migra
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Migra » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:27 pm

outershpongolia wrote:"You see me right now, but your bitch will see me later motha' fucka'!"

That's what I'd say..
LOL this is the best answer! :lol:
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beats me
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by beats me » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:28 pm

Maybe the problem is people performing with Live are getting wedged between traditional media DJs and the promoter, crowd, other DJs, and even the performer themselves don't know what exactly to call it or feel it's not worth debating or defending. So everybody just dubs that performer a DJ because it's locked into everybody's consciousness that somebody playing other people's music is called a DJ. From there everybody just wants to argue over the validity of DJ vs. what you are actually doing. It's not the performers fault this happens.

Maybe somebody should file a lawsuit a la Coke vs. Pepsi many years ago. Coke actually had some places closed down because they were serving Pepsi but allowed customers to say "Coke" when ordering which for a long time was considered a perfectly acceptable synonym. Coke was reduced to a generic term for any carbonated soda that wasn't fruit flavored. So Coca-Cola said fuck that because it was eating into their branding and made an example of a few small establishments by delivering a legal smack down. So now any establishment that serves beverages has to legally counter with "Is Pepsi (or whatever their substitute is) OK?" when somebody orders Coke.

So similarly maybe their needs to be a globally accepted term created for whatever it is people do with Live and the promoter or venue needs a smack down if they advertise them as a DJ. But we certainly shouldn't call it a Live performance for obvious other confusion reasons. Of course I don't know who would fund such a lawsuit but I'm sure at least mentally vinyl DJs would have no problem getting all class action about this.

RCUS
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by RCUS » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:42 pm

solovox wrote:Heh. As a producer/performer I do this onstage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9LqyBguFFE

And yet countless people STILL call me a DJ. It's an insult...but on the opposite end of how Johnisfaster is being insulted.

The moral is: the crowd is just dumb as a post...they don't understand what we are doing...just give up. I don't even correct people anymore when they call me a DJ. It's been a relief...

Solovox this rules! Great promo vid man! I wish i could play live, but i'm not trained =( . it's on my agenda to learn though. Everything i do has just been by ear and through process of elimination for any tracking that I do.

@ everyone else: performance, movement and crowd connection is really what it comes down to on this subject. When it comes to performing LIVE or DJing, the MAJORITY of people want to SEE something that they can hold onto and understand. That's why band music has always been the preferred musical entertainment for so long: The guy with the sticks hitting those drums is making that sound, THAT's COOL and HE's GREAT! The Guitarist and bassist are plucking those strings and furiously moving their fingers making THAT sound, AMAZING (because I can't do it like that)! The singer, is SINGING and hitting every note so well! The audience can see and understand the moves you are making even though most of them can't actually DO what you're doing. It's living vicariously really.

The hard truth about traditional DJing as a live performance medium is that the MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DON'T CARE THAT YOU ARE BEATMATCHING! It's a sad truth because it requires a great deal of practice and alot of skill to pull off quickly in a loud/not loud enough environment, but provides NOTHING for a performance other than your face looking stressed because you are concentrating on matching the beats. It's basically you amusing yourself, saying "hey, self, we just beatmatched, great job self"!

It's about progress really. I see absolutely nothing wrong with syncing, warping or any of that stuff, as long as you're attempting to progress things. Geeky at times...TOTALLY, but I have to give guys like Ean Golden and Moldover credit.

The video I posted on the first page shows a set that I designed that lets me be both a 'DJ' and a performer actually. If someone comes up to me to talk or request something, the music will keep going, it just won't be as crazy and I can't really focus on arranging/re-arranging. But honestly NO-ONE cares if i'm arranging or re-arranging but geeky people like US lol! The sad truth is I could have this entire board hate me "for cheating" and still be successful because I connect to the crowd. Life is hard. I don't even think what I did in that video is so great compared to what i've seen on the boards and internets. If you understand what I'm doing it gets less impressive LOL! Kind of like playing Nirvana on a guitar, but i'm practicing and getting better.

People want to hear good music, see a confident guy/gal bouncing around, and they want to be able to CONNECT visually to what you are doing. This is why controllers are so important to the progress of EDM in general. My main goal is to try to keep my hands off the laptop as much as possible; and as much as you can, SHOW people what you are doing.

with ALL that being said. learning to beatmatch using a pitch slider is a right of passage in my mind. its like learning to add and subtract before using a calculator. At the very least you should grasp the concept of how it's done.

Tone Deft
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:53 pm

DJs rambling on and on about how aloof and misunderstood they are...

excuse me while I go hurl.

nobody loves a DJ more than themselves. :roll:
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, POD500HDX, JX305, Nova
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oratowsky
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by oratowsky » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:21 pm

I do respect those who have had the experience of beatmatching on vinyls in a crowded club with shitty monitors and all, but again as several other people have commented, if you can eliminate that element of risk/fucking up, why not do it? I believe you should take advantage of technology.

the other thing I'd say is that, unless you are ACTUALLY mixing with vinyl, analog records, it seems to me that with CDjs / traktor/ serato you're basically just manipulating digital files with dated tools. the turntable is a convention coming from the analog, vinyl record, which is quickly becoming a novelty (BTW -- I truly do respect people who still mix with vinyl, that analog, vinyl sound is pretty much impossible to duplicate with ableton.) what can you do with a turntable? you can scratch (that doesn't interest me), you can seek back and forth (I have ableton set up with my clips so I don't need to do this), basically I don't understand the advantage of using turntables, it's kind of an arbitrary interface for mixing together tracks so why not use ableton and have all its flexibility and power to manipulate my digital files? can serato/traktor djs out there comment?

promotionally I just use my name (with no dj prefix), so I guess I would label myself as a performer. my mixing has a lot of extra surprises in there, I layer in acapellas, sometimes added percussion, I loop segments of tracks, etc.

however it seems that the general consensus would be to go the pee option, I would opt for the girlfriend.

sowhoso
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by sowhoso » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:25 pm


RCUS
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by RCUS » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:26 pm

oratowsky wrote:I do respect those who have had the experience of beatmatching on vinyls in a crowded club with shitty monitors and all, but again as several other people have commented, if you can eliminate that element of risk/fucking up, why not do it? I believe you should take advantage of technology.

the other thing I'd say is that, unless you are ACTUALLY mixing with vinyl, analog records, it seems to me that with CDjs / traktor/ serato you're basically just manipulating digital files with dated tools. the turntable is a convention coming from the analog, vinyl record, which is quickly becoming a novelty (BTW -- I truly do respect people who still mix with vinyl, that analog, vinyl sound is pretty much impossible to duplicate with ableton.) what can you do with a turntable? you can scratch (that doesn't interest me), you can seek back and forth (I have ableton set up with my clips so I don't need to do this), basically I don't understand the advantage of using turntables, it's kind of an arbitrary interface for mixing together tracks so why not use ableton and have all its flexibility and power to manipulate my digital files? can serato/traktor djs out there comment?

promotionally I just use my name (with no dj prefix), so I guess I would label myself as a performer. my mixing has a lot of extra surprises in there, I layer in acapellas, sometimes added percussion, I loop segments of tracks, etc.

however it seems that the general consensus would be to go the pee option, I would opt for the girlfriend.

lol! haha poor girl, what have I started?

oratowsky
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by oratowsky » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:28 pm

RCUS wrote:
oratowsky wrote:I do respect those who have had the experience of beatmatching on vinyls in a crowded club with shitty monitors and all, but again as several other people have commented, if you can eliminate that element of risk/fucking up, why not do it? I believe you should take advantage of technology.

the other thing I'd say is that, unless you are ACTUALLY mixing with vinyl, analog records, it seems to me that with CDjs / traktor/ serato you're basically just manipulating digital files with dated tools. the turntable is a convention coming from the analog, vinyl record, which is quickly becoming a novelty (BTW -- I truly do respect people who still mix with vinyl, that analog, vinyl sound is pretty much impossible to duplicate with ableton.) what can you do with a turntable? you can scratch (that doesn't interest me), you can seek back and forth (I have ableton set up with my clips so I don't need to do this), basically I don't understand the advantage of using turntables, it's kind of an arbitrary interface for mixing together tracks so why not use ableton and have all its flexibility and power to manipulate my digital files? can serato/traktor djs out there comment?

promotionally I just use my name (with no dj prefix), so I guess I would label myself as a performer. my mixing has a lot of extra surprises in there, I layer in acapellas, sometimes added percussion, I loop segments of tracks, etc.

however it seems that the general consensus would be to go the pee option, I would opt for the girlfriend.

lol! haha poor girl, what have I started?
her fault for being with him in the first place :D

RCUS
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by RCUS » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:32 pm

Pitch Black wrote:You think thats bad? how about spending oooh, 20 years learning music, learning to engineer and produce, developing performance skills and techniques, writing my own tunes, then trucking out 100kg of equipment to gigs to play a 100% original set of live electronica... and some punter comes up afterward to compliment me on my "DJ styles".

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Yup... I merely chose from the collective output of the world's best music, brought it here, and pressed play. [/sarcasm] Somewhat frustrating.


Still... a compliment's a compliment I suppose...

this thread is epic for me! your comment is exactly why I started leaving my studio in the studio in 2003 Pitch Black. that statement used to kill me to the core! i used to sequence 100% on the FLY using an MC-505 controlling all this shit LIVE with NO laptop. LOADS of gear, i was practically the 'one man band' guy you see playing on venice beach, and nobody got it! hahaha

now i'm a just a cyborg/hybrid DJ/LivePA. it way easier for hauling your gear... :arrow: :mrgreen:

rsaulo
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by rsaulo » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:32 pm

There is a club here in brazil that has an GIANT MIRROR behind the decks.

It´s a lot of fun to see djs playing there.

Maybe project your screen to the crowd and see what happens is a good idea!!! At least everyone will see what are you doing and will not do stupid questions.

:D :D :D :D

H20nly
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by H20nly » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:34 pm

Tone Deft wrote:DJs rambling on and on about how aloof and misunderstood they are...

excuse me while I go hurl.

nobody loves a DJ more than themselves. :roll:

move over.

TRS80
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by TRS80 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:38 pm

They argued about vinyl vs CD, they argue about CD versus laptop. They just, argue. Pointless.

Today's DJ is unrecognizable when viewed through the perspective of a DJ from 15 years ago. But, so what?

Everyone who wants to can get a laptop, download a bunch a free shit, and play DJ. So what?

It's about wanting to be the center of the party, making people shake their ass, and getting laid. At least that isn't likely to change.

Dj's are a dime a dozen today, cast into the realm of the hoes hookin' it on street corners worldwide. I"m so over the idea of a DJ. Nobody even cares except the DJ itself. One big fat tired joke. The train left the station years ago. It's now a job for the robots.

Tell him you're not a DJ, tell him you're an ass supervisor.

I would've said something like- well I guess this wasn't a real dance party and none of the people here were real either. It's just a dream, and I"m here to haunt yours.
Ableton Suite 8.2.2 suite; OS 10.6.7

Tone Deft
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:45 pm

H20nly wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:DJs rambling on and on about how aloof and misunderstood they are...

excuse me while I go hurl.

nobody loves a DJ more than themselves. :roll:

move over.
just as soon as I finish a third pitcher of PBR, then I'm going for distance!
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, POD500HDX, JX305, Nova
soundcloud.com/tone-deft

Trypset
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Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Trypset » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:55 pm

@ Salty P

This is very true, but I would shoot myself if I ever played the original. Nothing like a wompy remix. I think the remix is better than the original, plus most people have never heard the remix and everyone has heard the original.
TrypseT
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