being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Post Reply
RCUS
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:31 am

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by RCUS » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:26 am

RonaldDumsfeld wrote:[youtube]fkkjSIpIZnQ[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkkjSIpI ... re=related
if I only started when I was that young...... :!:

Kirk Degiorgio
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:45 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Kirk Degiorgio » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:43 am

For Dennis Ferrer.

I'm glad you acknowledge there are artists out there doing creative sets with Ableton.

I'm sick of saying it (mainly cos it makes me sound like a big-headed jerk), but I was the first pro-"DJ" to use Ableton exclusively for sets. I've been a DJ since the mid-80's - playing electro, to rare-groove, house/techno.

In my opinion, classing anybody who doesn't 'beat-match' as not a real DJ is very problematic. Gilles Peterson is one of the most respected DJ's in the world - he doesn't beat-match. Mancuso's loft parties were at the birth of DJ and club culture - no beat-matching.

DJing in the mid-late 80's I would use quick edit techniques far more than beat-matching as it was common to play all types of music in a single set.

Beat-matching is a skill for sure - but saying somebody is not a "DJ" but a "performer" is really just fussy semantics surely? Nobody accused Larry Levan, Ron Hardy, Walter Gibbons of not being "real DJ's" because they used reel to reel machines.

Why did they use reel to reel? To play their own edits - to make the music more 'their own' - to put their identity on the music and on their sets.

With Ableton you can re-edit on the fly. If you're good. Most DJ's are not and will sound terrible using Ableton to build sets. You could pre-plan a re-edit sure... no different from making a CD-R or dub-plate of your own re-edit to play out. But to re-edit on the fly in a club without losing impact, boring the crowd, making it sound musical - it's another skill set.

In fact I would go further - and say Ableton really exposes you as a DJ. There are many DJ's who are excellent at beat-matching - but don't play great music. Take away the beat-matching - let's judge them on what their playing. Without hiding behind the plate-spinning type skill of riding the pitch fader, what else do they have to offer?

Ableton opens up a whole new set of skills for DJ and performer alike. I have heard all these arguments before about it not being "real" and none of them hold up to scrutiny. Especially when viewed in context of the history of DJ culture.

Best of all... I like to stop talking and let my sets speak for themselves.

this mix is live - all off the cuff - using Ableton and APC40 controller.

(it happens to have one of your tracks in it cos it's the bomb).

http://www.littlewhiteearbuds.com/lwe-p ... degiorgio/

here's another:

http://www.bodytonicmusic.com/podcasts/ ... degiorgio/

No pressing one clip after another here - I am far busier and have more creative stuff going on than possible when I beat-matched with vinyl. Layering, arranging, filtering, eqing, delays, re-editing, looping, changing tempo - all spontaneous.

Enjoy.

KD
Last edited by Kirk Degiorgio on Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
http://www.planetary-folklore.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/kirkdegiorgio

Mac Pro 8 Core, 2GB RAM, OS 10.5.8, Logic 9.02, Live 8.1.3, Prism Sound Orpheus.
MacBook Pro 2.26ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, OS 10.6.3, Live 8.1.3, Akai APC40, NI Audio 4DJ.

Tone Deft
Posts: 24155
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:46 am

^ he wrote that during a gig.

Layering, arranging, trolling, filtering, eqing, delays, spamming, re-editing, looping, flaming, changing tempo - all spontaneous.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

Kirk Degiorgio
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:45 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Kirk Degiorgio » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:02 am

:lol:

that was actually very funny.

I don't think I was trolling.... and yes, posting links is very spammy - but I thought it was
easier than writing 'go check my podcasts on Bodytonic/LWE'... don't think I was flaming
anyone either?

KD
http://www.planetary-folklore.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/kirkdegiorgio

Mac Pro 8 Core, 2GB RAM, OS 10.5.8, Logic 9.02, Live 8.1.3, Prism Sound Orpheus.
MacBook Pro 2.26ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, OS 10.6.3, Live 8.1.3, Akai APC40, NI Audio 4DJ.

Johnisfaster
Posts: 7251
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:34 am
Contact:

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Johnisfaster » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:18 am

I don't see what the big deal is here. 9 times out of 10 you hang out in a club or a bar and someone will say something that could piss you off if you let it.

If someone said I'm not a DJ how could I possibly sweat that? cause I'm not! Even if I played other peoples music I'm not a f*n DJ.
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

Johnisfaster
Posts: 7251
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:34 am
Contact:

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Johnisfaster » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:23 am

Kirk Degiorgio wrote:but I was the first pro-"DJ" to use Ableton exclusively for sets.
BWAHAHAHA, who says stuff like that?
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

Tone Deft
Posts: 24155
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:25 am

Kirk Degiorgio wrote:I don't think I was trolling...
just a cheap joke.

should I read the thread now?


(that was another joke.) <--- not a joke.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

Tone Deft
Posts: 24155
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:25 am

Johnisfaster wrote:
Kirk Degiorgio wrote:but I was the first pro-"DJ" to use Ableton exclusively for sets.
BWAHAHAHA, who says stuff like that?
or should we ask ourselves...

who reads that shit? :oops:
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

Kirk Degiorgio
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:45 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Kirk Degiorgio » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:32 am

:lol: 8O

I'm confused beyond belief now...

johnnis - i did put the caveat that it makes me sound like a twat. but it's true... :D
http://www.planetary-folklore.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/kirkdegiorgio

Mac Pro 8 Core, 2GB RAM, OS 10.5.8, Logic 9.02, Live 8.1.3, Prism Sound Orpheus.
MacBook Pro 2.26ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, OS 10.6.3, Live 8.1.3, Akai APC40, NI Audio 4DJ.

SeizedPropaganda
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:04 pm

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by SeizedPropaganda » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:34 am

You weren't flaming anybody or being a troll Kirk I thought you brought up some great points. Using Ableton as a DJ tool really opens up a lot of opportunities that simply could be done with just some tables and a pitchbender

Trypset
Posts: 868
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:14 pm
Location: Horticulture Dept., Texas A&M

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Trypset » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:40 am

Johnisfaster wrote:
Kirk Degiorgio wrote:but I was the first pro-"DJ" to use Ableton exclusively for sets.
BWAHAHAHA, who says stuff like that?
Kirk Degiorgio, that's who! I was the first DJ to call himself TrypseT, please give me a cookie.

I keed I keed!
TrypseT
Live 8 Full (not suite), ES-1 MKII, Microkorg, MPC 1000, 2 1200's, Ms. Pinky's, OSX, Edirol FA-101, and a crate 'o' wax

Kirk Degiorgio
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:45 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Kirk Degiorgio » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:40 am

thx Seized... although I did think it was funny too.

as for the 'first pro-DJ thing' - I really didn't mean it to come across as conceited - but I guess statements like that
always come out sounding like shit... especially from the mouths of DJ's/producers!

The simple truth is, when I bought Live v.1.? (can't remember) - I bought it for doing live shows - but when i saw the crossfader, I
wondered why the designers put it there. It quickly sowed the seed to put other people's tracks in Live and
auto-beat-match them by warping. It worked!

I set up a "DJ set" using 8 tracks as 8 virtual decks (I didn't even use the crossfader that initially gave me the inspiration)
and toured Japan advertising each gig as an 'Ableton Live DJ set'.

I emailed Ableton HQ and they told me they hadn't heard of any other DJ using Ableton exclusively in this way.

Anyway.... there you go. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
http://www.planetary-folklore.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/kirkdegiorgio

Mac Pro 8 Core, 2GB RAM, OS 10.5.8, Logic 9.02, Live 8.1.3, Prism Sound Orpheus.
MacBook Pro 2.26ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, OS 10.6.3, Live 8.1.3, Akai APC40, NI Audio 4DJ.

3phase
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by 3phase » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:43 am

ts... actual dj´s shouldnt complain.. its rather disgusting for liveacts seeing djs acting as one...

so you have to cary all the hardware again to make a point...


besides.. is´nt dj software better for dj´s? just for the overview about the tracks? the ableton browser cant hardly compete with a cover flow view...

so a dj thats using ableton has not only preperad the beatmixing.. even the track selection is pretty well prepared?


I guess the
"I emailed Ableton HQ and they told me they hadn't heard of any other DJ using Ableton exclusively in this way."

says it all
Last edited by 3phase on Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Kirk Degiorgio
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:45 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by Kirk Degiorgio » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:56 am

3phase wrote:ts... actual dj´s shouldnt complain.. its rather disgusting for liveacts seeing djs acting as one...

so you have to cary all the hatdware again to make a point...
>> make the point of what exactly?
3phase wrote:besides.. ist dj software better for dj´s? just for the overview about the tracks? the ableton browser cant hardly compete with a cover flow view...

so a dj thats using ableton has not only preperad the beatmixing.. even the track selection is pretty well prepared?
>> huh? Live's browser can show a far wider track selection than possible with a couple of boxes of vinyl. Never found it a problem to find clips and
drag them into the session view. Or just drag hundreds of clips into the session view and move around the session with your controller. You still have a much wider choice - and therefore more chance of variety between sets when on tour for example. The track selection when using vinyl is obviously more pre-prepared because you have a limited amount you can carry.
http://www.planetary-folklore.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/kirkdegiorgio

Mac Pro 8 Core, 2GB RAM, OS 10.5.8, Logic 9.02, Live 8.1.3, Prism Sound Orpheus.
MacBook Pro 2.26ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, OS 10.6.3, Live 8.1.3, Akai APC40, NI Audio 4DJ.

3phase
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

Post by 3phase » Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:32 am

Kirk Degiorgio wrote:
3phase wrote:ts... actual dj´s shouldnt complain.. its rather disgusting for liveacts seeing djs acting as one...

so you have to cary all the hatdware again to make a point...
>> make the point of what exactly?

i personaly was wittnesing a view times that parts of the audience have mistaken an ableton dj set as a life set because they just not knew that the guy was playing steve bug, luciano and alike... there are really people that go to the partys that dont know much about the artists... or the other way around..people are so used to djs with laptops and controlers that they take the liveset as a dj set... Its realy a bit mixed up by now...

i also once was asked if i ve realised that the dj is playing al the time the same record.. one thats named time code :-)..
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Post Reply