Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
lolalola
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Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by lolalola » Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:32 am

Sounds blatantly like I'd be thieving, but can I copy a basic beat such as this without running into copyright issues? It's three kick drums, one snare.. that's it! Would that require permission? :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3OaMZojJRg

dmcm
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by dmcm » Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:06 am

You might want to pick a less well-known track if you're sampling stuff. I'd know that beat anywhere as it's quite famous - and one of the most stand-out things about that Iggy Pop track.

Why sample is when it's that simple? Try recreating it with your own sounds and putting a slight twist on it?

Or use it - just be prepared to pay for it.

lolalola
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by lolalola » Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:09 am

I just love the beat! I can re-create it easy enough, but does that count as sampling or copying still?

UL
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by UL » Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:26 am

Panzer Ag has a track call Aenimal, which sounds very similar....sounds like they just tweeked it a bit and they haven't gotten any copyright infringements.

dtlj
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by dtlj » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:51 am

if girl talk can get away with it i think you'll be fine

outershpongolia
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by outershpongolia » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:53 am

If you recreate that and someone gives you grief I'd poop in their cereal.

STRATEGY_510
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by STRATEGY_510 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:15 am

lolalola wrote:Sounds blatantly like I'd be thieving, but can I copy a basic beat such as this without running into copyright issues? It's three kick drums, one snare.. that's it! Would that require permission? :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3OaMZojJRg
unless you sell well over 50k,no one will care enough to sue you

STRATEGY

outershpongolia
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by outershpongolia » Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:58 am

STRATEGY_510 wrote:
lolalola wrote:Sounds blatantly like I'd be thieving, but can I copy a basic beat such as this without running into copyright issues? It's three kick drums, one snare.. that's it! Would that require permission? :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3OaMZojJRg
unless you sell well over 50k,no one will care enough to sue you

STRATEGY
That's what I'm saying..

I figure I'd release music for free (if I even get to that point) and just make some cash off ticket sales and such (that'd be great).. Not that that's the ultimate goal I just want to have some fun and mess with some music..

jerry123
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by jerry123 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:29 am

Depends on the artist as well.
If you sample James Brown, his family will hunt you down for half of whatever you make.

Then take Milo's Destroy Rock'n'Roll, people like Madona and the Sex Pistols heard it and loved him for it.
Same with Girl Talk, the artists don't sue because they love what he does with their tracks.
Heck, I'd be happy if you took an old famous song of mine and made it famous again.

Like said above, if you don't gross, you don't worry, normally.

outershpongolia
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by outershpongolia » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:35 am

jerry123 wrote:Depends on the artist as well.
If you sample James Brown, his family will hunt you down for half of whatever you make.

Then take Milo's Destroy Rock'n'Roll, people like Madona and the Sex Pistols heard it and loved him for it.
Same with Girl Talk, the artists don't sue because they love what he does with their tracks.
Heck, I'd be happy if you took an old famous song of mine and made it famous again.

Like said above, if you don't gross, you don't worry, normally.
What, The, Fuck. The first song I ever sampled was James Brown - The Boss.. But I'm definitely not making any money, I haven't even played shows outside of a few parties.. SO until then, succkaaamahnutzzz

outershpongolia
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by outershpongolia » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:37 am

and doesn't Girl Talk sell his stuff on amazon, iTunes, etc?

I've heard of people having legal problems for samples that have been warped, mangled, effected to hell, almost unrecognizable.. Yet, Girl Talk runs loops that are almost completely un-processed and he's SELLING IT!

I don't get it.

lolalola
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by lolalola » Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:45 am

aaah, now I'm even more confused.... how much is it to even clear a sample? i'm sure that fee varies, but where do you even start? and if you clear a sample, would the artist want royalties for every sale forever? (not that i'd be selling by the truckload, but, y'know)

juncmodule
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by juncmodule » Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:40 pm

I'm not sure that you are going to find a real answer.

I have heard recently that you can't sample anything from anyone, of any length. I have no idea how much legal weight that has.

However, aren't you talking about reconstructing the beat and not sampling it? If you use your our sounds and just rebuild the beat I doubt anyone can sue you.

Doesn't every classic rock and roll song use the same exact beat? What about techno? Can someone sue you for making a song with that beat? Then again, it seems that anyone can sue anyone for anything they feel like...sooo...good luck with that.

Even if you don't make money off of it someone can sue you for "lost revenue", or something like that, meaning people listened to your free track instead of paying for their $10 track.

Basically, from all I've heard about sampling and lawsuits, we should all stop making music. We can't even hum. We probably shouldn't listen to music either because we are probably infringing on someones broadcasting rights. Since Ableton makes software that makes music that is clearly a copyright violation, they should stop to.

Or...you could just say screw it all and sample whatever the hell you feel like.

I think it is all about breaking the law in small degrees and hoping you don't dip into the lawsuit level.

later,
-junc

Green Lemon
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by Green Lemon » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:57 pm

Well, a few years ago I found myself in an argument with a lawyer representing the RIAA. It broke down heatedly as you might expect, but he told me that there was no problem at all if I, for instance, replayed a Hendrix guitar riff and put it on my record. But straight up sampling was a no no. To him. Fat fcuk.
--
first 1k as chrysalis33rpm.

lolalola
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Re: Can I take a simple beat from a song without permission....?

Post by lolalola » Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:32 pm

Green Lemon wrote:Well, a few years ago I found myself in an argument with a lawyer representing the RIAA. It broke down heatedly as you might expect, but he told me that there was no problem at all if I, for instance, replayed a Hendrix guitar riff and put it on my record. But straight up sampling was a no no. To him. Fat fcuk.

:wink:

Yeah, who can say a drum beat is THEIR drum beat?! I can see why the famous 'amen break' that has been done to death may be reason for lawsuits in that it's complex, and everyone SAMPLED it, but I'm hoping that if I copy the pattern and sound of 'DUM DUM, DUM, FFSSHT' from Nightclubbing, then I'll be ok....? I just read that Trent Reznor sampled the kickdrum from that song for NIN's 'Closer' ... Duno why he ddidn't just copy it, rather than sample it.

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