Ableton Forum

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:03 pm**

dave999z wrote:
gumpbert wrote: A pair of headphones will probably give you a better understanding of what's happening in the low end than a sub in a room that has no treatment.
Yeah, I have Sennheiser HD 650 phones. They are useful for that.

Thanks for the input.

Sorry, bad advice. Low end is exactly what no headphone on this planet can help you with (detect problems) even checking with various cans. When I have no access to monitors working with HD600 use HD 25 to check the lows but still, it is no solution. When I moved to Germany I didnt have all my gear, no proper monitors so tried to compensate checking with AKG271,Beyers 990,Sony 7506 along with HD25 and 600 (yes I used to be headphone junkie). No way around it, for lots of things but low end in particular.

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:06 pm**

Jens Burkert wrote:Last summer I was about to replace my gens 1030a with a pair of 8030. Fortunately I decided to invest at first in the room acoustics. So I bought a low priced measurement microphone and did some extensive testings. I really couldnt believe how bad my room was. Giant peaks and combs all over the spectrum. Then I bought rockwool, big plastic bags and black fabric for around 400 Euro and built around 30 tube-like, very big absorbers. I placed them in almost every corner of the room and above my sitting position.
To cut a long story short, I love my room now and I still have my 1030. I wont sell them. I know them and I like them more then ever. They sound much more expensive then before. But I have noticed one thing. They roll off really steep below 50 Hz. So I bought an Adam Sub8, calibrated it in 15 minutes (thanks to the measurement micro) and now everything is fine.

With just a new pair 8030s I wouldnt even come close to the sound I have now.

I have attached you a before/after-image of the low frequncy response of my room. The after image is without the sub.

Impressive graph, you really did amazing job, let us see it, pics plz.

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:32 pm**

rikhyray wrote:
dave999z wrote:
gumpbert wrote: A pair of headphones will probably give you a better understanding of what's happening in the low end than a sub in a room that has no treatment.
Yeah, I have Sennheiser HD 650 phones. They are useful for that.

Thanks for the input.
Sorry, bad advice. Low end is exactly what no headphone on this planet can help you with (detect problems) even checking with various cans. When I have no access to monitors working with HD600 use HD 25 to check the lows but still, it is no solution. When I moved to Germany I didnt have all my gear, no proper monitors so tried to compensate checking with AKG271,Beyers 990,Sony 7506 along with HD25 and 600 (yes I used to be headphone junkie). No way around it, for lots of things but low end in particular.

+1, that is the worst advice ever given, i think i rather pull myself out of this conversation before i pull all my hair out.

please don't get people into habits they will regret one day. mark my words when you look back in a few years.
(it is a lot of unnecessary work to get rid of bad habits, and sometimes not easy at all to accomplish, so don't even start)

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:05 pm**

rikhyray wrote:
dave999z wrote:
gumpbert wrote: A pair of headphones will probably give you a better understanding of what's happening in the low end than a sub in a room that has no treatment.
Yeah, I have Sennheiser HD 650 phones. They are useful for that.

Thanks for the input.
Sorry, bad advice. Low end is exactly what no headphone on this planet can help you with (detect problems) even checking with various cans. When I have no access to monitors working with HD600 use HD 25 to check the lows but still, it is no solution. When I moved to Germany I didnt have all my gear, no proper monitors so tried to compensate checking with AKG271,Beyers 990,Sony 7506 along with HD25 and 600 (yes I used to be headphone junkie). No way around it, for lots of things but low end in particular.

I disagree. I trust HD600 and ATH-M50 a lot more than my monitors when handling the bass. My room is untreated and I know I have problems with standing waves in that room. Adding a sub to that would certainly not improve the situation. With proper treatment it's another story, but dave999z said his room "sucks", so I doubt a sub would do much good there.

Headphones work quite well for me and a lot of others as well. I am by no means a professional, but my mixes usually translate fairly well to other systems, and it's very rarely the bass that is a problem whenever there is one.

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:15 pm**

I also think that using headphones for subs can be a good idea. The main danger I think you run into is overcompensating for the fact that the bass is not physical, but if you keep that in mind and A/B between your monitors I think you'll do fine. Not everyone has a treated room. Hell, not everyone can afford monitors - was on only headphones when I started out

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:16 pm**

it also comes down to the basics of know how your medium sounds, whatever that may be.

imho

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:28 pm**

gumpbert wrote: I am by no means a professional, but my mixes usually translate fairly well to other systems, and it's very rarely the bass that is a problem whenever there is one.

I am not professional surgeon but if you dont have a scalpel and other operation tools a Sushi knife can be good substitute and hammer and chisel could be well used for removing brain tumor or wisdom tooth. I have always very good results opening coconuts with those (when machete was not at hand), not to mention slicing mangos with Sushi knife.

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:33 pm**

I'm not talking about trying to hear down to 20 Hz or something. (Wouldn't expect to hear anything lower than my Adams, which go down to what 65 Hz or so?) I don't mix on headphones. But I have them and because my room is muddy (room treatment is on my list) it is useful to check mixes on them.

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:07 pm**

hrmmm, I dunno mate a lot of headphones will go quite a bit lower than that, Dave999z. Most sennies will get you down to 30Hz at least in reasonably good shape, yeah?

Posted: **Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:16 am**

flippo wrote:hrmmm, I dunno mate a lot of headphones will go quite a bit lower than that, Dave999z. Most sennies will get you down to 30Hz at least in reasonably good shape, yeah?

I'm just not that technical. My point is that I use my headphones to see if it sounds way different than my Adams do in my crappy room. However low my Adams go, I don't put my headphones on expecting to go lower. If I were doing club music, I'd get a sub (and fix my room at the same time).

Back to my monitor selection... Just packed up the Adam to send back to Sweetwater for repair. When I get it back, as soon as I pick replacements, the Adams go on eBay. It really makes me sad, because I like them. But I'm not going to be left out $1000 once the warranty expires and they break again.

Posted: **Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:17 am**

rikhyray wrote:
Jens Burkert wrote:Last summer I was about to replace my gens 1030a with a pair of 8030. Fortunately I decided to invest at first in the room acoustics. So I bought a low priced measurement microphone and did some extensive testings. I really couldnt believe how bad my room was. Giant peaks and combs all over the spectrum. Then I bought rockwool, big plastic bags and black fabric for around 400 Euro and built around 30 tube-like, very big absorbers. I placed them in almost every corner of the room and above my sitting position.
To cut a long story short, I love my room now and I still have my 1030. I wont sell them. I know them and I like them more then ever. They sound much more expensive then before. But I have noticed one thing. They roll off really steep below 50 Hz. So I bought an Adam Sub8, calibrated it in 15 minutes (thanks to the measurement micro) and now everything is fine.

With just a new pair 8030s I wouldnt even come close to the sound I have now.

I have attached you a before/after-image of the low frequncy response of my room. The after image is without the sub.

Impressive graph, you really did amazing job, let us see it, pics plz.

+1!

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:39 pm**

deleted

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:55 pm**

dave999z wrote:deleted

Ok... deleted too

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:56 pm**

Posted: **Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:52 pm**

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