The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Benshik
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The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by Benshik » Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:39 am

Hi guys,
at what sample rate / bit depth should I export eclectic mixes made of live instruments and vocal recordings at 24/48000, 16/41000, plus vsti's rendered with live's internal processing at 32 bit and 41000 (i suppose). How important is sample rate here? Should i keep it at 41000?
What would you guys suggest?
Thanx


Ben
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doghouse
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by doghouse » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:53 am

What's your application?

For CDs 44.1/16 is the format you need anyway. The only reason to go 24 bit is when the files will be processed further after export.

24 bit 48KHz or 96KHz is useful if your audio will used for video.

Benshik
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by Benshik » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:34 pm

well thats the thing, i'd like to keep it as open as possible... produce some nice sounding mp3's, CD, why not film?
What would be safer then? 32/41000? 32/192000?

Maybe it's because im not used to it, but i get the sensation that higher sample rates are supposed to give better quality but im afraid it could make things sound worse by changing too much how the file is sampled.
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bulo
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by bulo » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:45 pm

Go 8 bit man !
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Tarekith
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by Tarekith » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:52 pm

24/44,1 will be fine for almost anything. I don't think there's much benefit in going to 32bit, and 96k is a bit overkill for the little gains it brings.
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ark
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by ark » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:01 pm

Tarekith wrote:I don't think there's much benefit in going to 32bit...
I can't imagine why there'd be any real benefit at all in going to 32-bit.

Assuming proper sampling and dithering, you get 6dB of dynamic range per bit. So with 16 bits you get 96dB of dynamic range, and with 24 bits you get 144dB.

I can understand that 96dB might not be enough if you are careless with levels. For example, if you never let the level get higher than 16dB below the max, then your 96dB has just become 80dB, and it might be possible to hear the noise floor during periods of silence if you have the gain cranked up.

But 144dB should be more than enough for even the most careless.

andrewbrewer
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by andrewbrewer » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:06 pm

yeah for the crispness i'd recommend 11 khz / 8 bit (its a production secret, so keep it on the down low)

kabelton
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by kabelton » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:09 pm

bulo wrote:Go 8 bit man !
+1

detroitechno
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by detroitechno » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:01 pm

CD: 16/44.1
DVD: 24/48
Blu-Ray/SACD/HD-DVD/etc.. : 24/96

Archival: 24/96 or 24/192


If HD space is of no concern, it never hurts to keep everything 24/96.

Even if the benefit is minimal, why not?
A bunch of gear, cords, and a computer...

Tone Deft
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:07 pm

I change my sample rate up depending on what I'm doing with Live.

48kHz for general use because it's easier on the CPU and I don't have to worry about pops and clicks. if I play guitar/bass whatever into Live and am using its effects I need low latency so I go to 192kHz. usually I stay at 48kHz and rely on Delay Compensation to get external recordings to track on time.

if you have to ask about this your production skills are probably going to be more of a detriment than the chosen sample rate and bit depth. that's not an insult, it's a process of learning, nobody was born knowing all this stuff. my skills aren't there yet, 99% of us aren't there yet. I'll probably NEVER think "damn, that song would've sounded better if only I used 32/192kHz."
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ampman117
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by ampman117 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:20 am

Personally I use 96kHz sample rate. I use virtual instruments, and the higher sample rate sounds better to me than 44.1 or 48. Probably would vary depending on virtual instrument used (internal oversampling or not, DSP algorithms used...) and your specific setup though...do some test runs with with your system at various setting, see if you can hear a difference and use whatever sounds better to you (and as long as your system handles it ok for what you are doing)

As far as bit depth, I go at least 24bit when recording or exporting audio, since who knows when I might want to post process things :)

flippo
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by flippo » Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:37 am

I've had mastering houses tell me to resend my WAVs at 16 bit after sending them at 24 originally. Weird? I can understand someone thinking there is no real benefit, but actually specifying for a down sampled version? found that odd.


I'm really inconsistent with sample rates and depth myself, it's a pain in the arse. Now that I'm using Live instead of CD's I might up the sample rate a bit.

flippo
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by flippo » Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:38 am

interested to do some tests to see how ableton's performance for live use changes with different settings now.

Benshik
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by Benshik » Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:54 am

Thanx for the replies guys. for sure i'll do some testing but always good to hear about your experience...

For some reason i compare the sample rate to the frame rate of a film. and i know if i want my final result to be 24p, i'd rather shoot in pal at 25 frames than in ntsc at 30 frame, the process being less likely to distort to original picture, im afraid the same might happen with frame rate and bit depht. it sounds simple but it aint... what if my audio rendered at 16/41000 starts to sound different if rendered at 24/48000? Can the process of resampling it alter the sound?
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shaneyshaneshanemcshabadooskee
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Re: The ideal sample rate / bit depth

Post by shaneyshaneshanemcshabadooskee » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:52 pm

Can someone tell me how to export my tune at 8 bit/ 11khz using ableton 8, you can pm if you want to keep it real downlow. but it seems my only options are 16-32 bit and none of the sample rates i can choose from are 11khz, is there something I am missing, I want my songs to sound exatly the same as when they are being played by ableton and when they are being played in itunes.I usually exported at what I beleived was highest quality 32 bit, 192 htz, but I have read that 8 bit is the way to go, so I would like to try that, but I cant seem to find the option for it. can someone help me? thanks

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