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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:41 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:41 pm
Posts: 7853
Location: A Big Toilet Called Berlin
davepermen wrote:
BECAUSE I USE THE LAPTOP ON STAGE hehehe :)


that should obviously not be the reason.

the 'love' for maschine is mainly there because it is an instrument in itself (and is it stands for now more performance/live oriented then live) plus the near ultimate controller for anything else out there in one single USB powered well built and light unit, and as a plugin (with full individual control) it serves in all other preferred software one loves to use, such as ableton, i can't ask for more...

as i said, i chuck it with the comp and a soundcard into my bagpack and i cover all my needs for all my software in one single unit. perfect.

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:54 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 pm
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Location: Switzerland
SubFunk wrote:
that should obviously not be the reason.

can't be, as my laptop is small (12"), and layed out flat, so most don't even see what it is that i punch around on.

Quote:
the 'love' for maschine is mainly there because it is an instrument in itself (and is it stands for now more performance/live oriented then live) plus the near ultimate controller for anything else out there in one single USB powered well built and light unit, and as a plugin (with full individual control) it serves in all other preferred software one loves to use, such as ableton, i can't ask for more...

as i said, i chuck it with the comp and a soundcard into my bagpack and i cover all my needs for all my software in one single unit. perfect.


as said, when actually using the laptop directly, live is a quite nice performance/live oriented instrument by itself (worse than the maschine, sure). so you would have two instruments in your bag, then, not just one.

this is the reason why i question the "don't touch the laptop" directive I've heard so often. i care about my bag space, thus not using the laptop for everything it can is a waste of space and weight and cost.

i'd like to see a maschine in action, though.. youtube doesn't count, i don't get what they're doing in those videos.. and when i get it, i just think 'i could have done this without that maschine just as well'. not seeing that light :)

then again, one thing might be, too, i don't use, nor like, samples at all. might that be relevant?

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:23 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:41 pm
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Location: A Big Toilet Called Berlin
davepermen wrote:
then again, one thing might be, too, i don't use, nor like, samples at all. might that be relevant?


i don't think so, actually maschine is getting me slowly but surely into the joy of creative sampling... i never thought that this could happen with me before either! (i was never ever into samples)

the point is that in my case it serves standalone and as a controller for 3 of my permanently used audio softwares (plus reason every now and then)
it serves so many purposes at once, and the point is it does not make it half arsed but beautifully perfect, they created a perfect instrument in itself and something that like nothing else integrates into other software like it, all other controllers are not touching that. there is always a drawback with one software or workflow, with maschine not, from simple instrument control over PT, LIve, Logic, Reason, Traktor, Scratch (itch), etc. etc. etc. etc. plus unbeatable mackie control... and visual feedback, and super sensitive velocity no matter what you are using it for.

i used to own an MPC 2000xl for years long before i had a computer... i used electribes for live performances, long before ableton came into my world, i used the PadK (and still love it) and i use a midi keyboard for certain things in the studio, i can't even explain it in words myself what makes maschine so different and special... but i know that when i watch videos of it, i also think it does not translate at all the experience using it. seriously. (squelcht i think knows what i mean, i can't really describe it)

it's getting boring dave, i said all there is to it before already several times, USB powered, sensible size and weight for traveling, sturdy / quality built... blah blah, i am more then difficult to satisfy, i am always on the urge for having everything beyond perfect and i hardly can be satisfied (to a real ridiculous extend, i know!) this is in the 20 years of me making my own music / dj-ing the first piece of gear i personally consider perfect. that is simply the truth how i feel about it.

it is a product that could come fully out of my mind. (maybe they read it?) it integrates everything i ever wished for.

and as long as they don't make the same mistake as ableton and jeopardy the stability and ease of use for an overload on functions of the software in the future no one really needs for a performance, i will stay happy with it.

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 pm
Posts: 2196
Location: Switzerland
which is why i don't say anything against it :) but it's sorta scary to see you loving it that much as you're the very critical type else.

then again, so far right now, i use no samples, and only live. so the interoperability and any of the "creative sampling" would be missed, which reduces it's gains for me. the net result would most likely be me using it as a glorified midi controller. and for that, it's huge, and expensive.

i'm still working at finding 100% of the usages of live, and my midi devices :)

so while it's the perfect thing for you after 20 years of search, sort of, i still think it isn't the perfect thing for me (and thus for others). so try before buy FTW.

but while it might not be something for me, i can just say NI software and hardware are both awesome. so if it fits ones workflow, it sure delivers.

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:36 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:41 pm
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of course, i never said it fits everyone, but surely me! it is like they where reading my mind and implemented all my whishes and ideas i ever had in one single unit. :D

that obviously doesn't have to account to anyone else.

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 pm
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Location: Switzerland
hehe, have to make sure that i see that setup made out of your mind one day when i'm around :)

as i'm a geek and programmer and all, my setup of choice is mostly about software..

and from what i learn in live, i'm planning on my own software..

yes indeed :) but slow planning :)

and yes, it would be more live-performance tailored, too :) haha..

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:29 am
Posts: 4369
Location: The Ableton Live Forum
I'll tell you one reason I like to stay away from the mouse: I use one all day at work!

So to be able to load sounds, enter patterns by hitting pads, tweak effects by only turning knobs and not going back and forth between mouse and knob... yes please. But the great thing is that if I dowant to work with the mouse, no problem! The software works fine on it's own.

I think my favorite thing is that Maschine allows me to have all my drums and one-shots in one track. Single hits, loops, fx, whatever. And since I like restricting myself to 8 tracks in Live, this gives me unlimited drums one one track, while still being able to have different effects and most importantly, being able to control the whole thing from a dedicated controller. Maschine or the drum track, APC40 for the instrument tracks. Booyah.

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:54 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 pm
Posts: 2196
Location: Switzerland
for me 'using the mouse all day at work' is a + to use it for music, too.. it's the one device that i'm trained most to know how to use it :)

(and yes, for the nitpickers: on stage, i don't have a mouse, i just have my joysticknipplethingy)

and lives drumrack has nearly unlimited oneshot samples in one track just as well :)

i do understand your setup, though :) i'm just picking around myself :)

and yes, the 8 max horizontal is very understandable... know it from the launchpad

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:01 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:41 pm
Posts: 7853
Location: A Big Toilet Called Berlin
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
The software works fine on it's own.


yep, another killer thing, the software works completely and also highly intuitive without the controller. so having only the comp with you allows you still to work with everything and then you can go back totally 'computer' free and continue. booyah!!

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:29 am
Posts: 4369
Location: The Ableton Live Forum
davepermen wrote:
for me 'using the mouse all day at work' is a + to use it for music, too.. it's the one device that i'm trained most to know how to use it :)

You had to be trained on using the mouse? 8O Just kidding. :wink: The less I use a mouse now, the more my wrist will thank me later...

davepermen wrote:
and lives drumrack has nearly unlimited oneshot samples in one track just as well :)


Indeed, Drum Racks were my drum device of choice before machine, but when it came to being able to actually control them (tweaks, sends, volumes, mutes etc.), then you are the land of manual midi mapping, since you only get 8 macros for the entire drum setup, which just isn't ideal and really limits you. Also, slicing loops into the same drum rack as single hits would become a nightmare very soon. Maschine on the other hand = You have any parameter you want mapped to a knob without having to manually assign it, and also sliced loops can be on a single pad just like a drum hit, or over a whole group. It fixes all the problems I had with Drum racks before. But anyways, there are just too many advantages to list...

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 pm
Posts: 2196
Location: Switzerland
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
You had to be trained on using the mouse? 8O Just kidding. :wink: The less I use a mouse now, the more my wrist will thank me later...

26 years of training indeed... :)

have to take care of my wrist, that's true. changed my work and home setup and mice to work against those issues.

Quote:
Indeed, Drum Racks were my drum device of choice before machine, but when it came to being able to actually control them (tweaks, sends, volumes, mutes etc.), then you are the land of manual midi mapping, since you only get 8 macros for the entire drum setup, which just isn't ideal and really limits you. Also, slicing loops into the same drum rack as single hits would become a nightmare very soon. Maschine on the other hand = You have any parameter you want mapped to a knob without having to manually assign it, and also sliced loops can be on a single pad just like a drum hit, or over a whole group. It fixes all the problems I had with Drum racks before.

that's what i guessed :) just wanted to make sure a drum rack would be sort of the "small solution", so that i understand what you use it for.
i don't use drum racks myself anymore. i use group tracks, and have about all things laid out horizontally anyways. the limits you mention would limit me, too.

Quote:
But anyways, there are just too many advantages to list...

i guess i've heard that one before :)

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
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no Maschine users will address latency? they all seem to think there is none?

I don't use my MPC for sample slicing. actually I made multi-sample EIC drum kits for it so I can use the EIC samples in real time. after slicing came out in Live 7 (was it?) there was no need to ever do it in an MPC again.

even just as a drum machine with just the EIC loaded I have no regrets having the MPC around. not that that means I have no use for a Maschine, it's just that the MPC discussion stopped at slicing samples.

my $0.02.

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:29 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:29 am
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Location: The Ableton Live Forum
Tone Deft wrote:
no Maschine users will address latency? they all seem to think there is none?

I don't use my MPC for sample slicing. actually I made multi-sample EIC drum kits for it so I can use the EIC samples in real time. after slicing came out in Live 7 (was it?) there was no need to ever do it in an MPC again.

even just as a drum machine with just the EIC loaded I have no regrets having the MPC around. not that that means I have no use for a Maschine, it's just that the MPC discussion stopped at slicing samples.

my $0.02.


Latency is the same as any other sampler triggered by a midi controller. Low sample rate = low latency. Feels the same as when I'm playing keyboard.
As for slicing, yeah my main use for Maschine is by far sequencing and playing kits with individual drum hits, but like I said before, being able to load a loop, slice it and treat it like a single hit within the same plug-in instance and track as the rest of your drums is pretty key to me.

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:38 am
Posts: 1887
Location: QC, NC
^If you havn't already, take some out of your day & watch the multi-video lessons they have on Maschine on YouTube - And if that hasn't made you wet enough for one jump on over to NI's page & watch the beta 1.5 videos. I can see Maschine lingering in the market for a looong time given there be steady & continuous updates to the "software".

@ glitchrock - I agree totally with the drum racks thing. I too was relying on them before Maschine. Now I look @ Abletons drum racks as a joke compared to Maschine. Everything is controllable-tweekable-editable with ZERO mapping. God bless you NI. God bless...

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 Post subject: Re: @ Tarekith [maschine&live]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:25 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 1305
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
SubFunk wrote:
or you can choose that maschine creates an audio file out of your midi pattern you have in maschine with the choosen sound in maschine, the audio loop is 100% accurate and you drop it into an audio channel of ableton and it will loop synced along... just plain awesome, just so awesome...



That really kicks ass. Actually I also just found an NI video showing exactly the above (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDdN-fS1kA4) dragging patterns into live and having them convert to Audio (after toggling just one menu selection in the maschine software). That's pretty much *exactly* what I needed to know about this thing. And I agree, it's awesome functionality.

edit: in fact....now with this info, a chunk of my hefty tax return, and a nice educational discount to boot, I'm ready to order the monster! err, the machine...

-M

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