8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Tiza
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by Tiza » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:22 pm

Hello, its normal when i create an external instrument to send midi to my elektron monomachine.. when i load a clip with a lot of notes or "info" ableton overload and overload... and at the end crash... Its normal ?? i use a macbook 2.4 snow leopard, motu ultralite.. 8.1.3 suite. Thanks

Dennis DeSantis
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 3:31 pm
Location: Ableton NYC

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:26 pm

Tiza wrote:Hello, its normal when i create an external instrument to send midi to my elektron monomachine.. when i load a clip with a lot of notes or "info" ableton overload and overload... and at the end crash... Its normal ?? i use a macbook 2.4 snow leopard, motu ultralite.. 8.1.3 suite. Thanks
No, no crash is normal.

Did you send a bug report?

Thanks,

Coupe70
Posts: 1097
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Location: Mainz / Germany
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Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by Coupe70 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:53 pm

Dennis DeSantis wrote:We simply thought they were too technical and specific to be useful for a wide range of users.
These users are free to ignore the changelogs if they don't understand them.
But as we see there are other users (=customers) who would like to read them
A good reason to publish them I guess...

Personally I don't understand at all the decision behind the contrast of
this huge bug fixing effort on the one hand and making a "secret" of the
results like never before on the other hand...
Phongemeinschaft (Live-ElectroJazz / NuJazz)
Homepage - youtube - Like! :-)
Live 9 (32Bit), HP DV7, i5 2,53GHz, 8 GB RAM, Win7 (64Bit)

The Carpet Cleaner
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 2:21 pm
Location: Paris

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:06 pm

Dennis DeSantis wrote:Hi folks,

Please understand that the decision to not post changelogs was not an attempt to "whitewash" anything. We simply thought they were too technical and specific to be useful for a wide range of users.

That being said, thanks for the feedback on the topic. We're taking it all into consideration.

Best,
a changelogs is ... A changelogs.
You don't have to gives all the technical informations.
Just write which problem you discovered and fixed. You and thaousand of other companies have been doing thus for ages. I don't see why suddently changelogs would be too complicated. If it's toocomplicated, you can try to make it with simple words like "crash" and "fixed".
Cheers for the update !

MPGK
Posts: 678
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:57 am
Location: Hamburg

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by MPGK » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:18 pm

Nice to see we're taken into consideration and get feedback on our feedback. :)

Still, release notes are a nice thing for people who read and understand them - and you must be documenting your efforts in some way, so why not post your progress and keep us informed?

fakegolfer
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by fakegolfer » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:02 pm

I agree too with the need of a Release Notes/Bug Fixes.

Any Max/MSP user will absolutely need it because when you do programming and you encounter a bug. You need to know if it has been fixed or if it still not working. I'm downloading a 700 mb file not knowing if the problems I'm encountering has been fixed.

Anyway, someone who doesn't need or understand it just have to not look at it.

drakeyboy
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:05 pm

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by drakeyboy » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:19 pm

+1 for release notes.
Mac Pro 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad Xeon
OS X 10.5.8

evilaci
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:48 am

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by evilaci » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:31 am

HeadrickProductions wrote:
evilaci wrote:@MPKG and @lapieuvre:

Ok you disagree with me but i dont disagree with you.... :mrgreen:

You want to check the published release notes (me too) but after reading and checking them this is for you finished.

But it might be not for Ableton! After publishing the changelog it could be possible that 1,2,3,4 persons from Abes have to catch the biggest part of this community because they freak out.

Do you remember the release note discussions here which ended in the requests of some Klugscheisser: I WANT A LIST OF ALL(!) PLUGINS THAT DONT WORK WITH LIVE? AND I`m A PAID SUITE CUSTOMER AND IF YOU DONT DELIVER YOUR SUPPORT IS BULLSHIT.....

This is just one example why we dont get them published and i can absolutely understand and support this!

Snapshot off other communites:

Where are the USB3 Interfaces from RME? Nothing planned so RME = Bullshit
Where is Blueray and USB3 in the new Macbooks? Not in new version so Apple = Bullshit
Where is a ULN2, ULN4, ULN without Micpres, ULN with ADAT and 3 Micpres, ULN for WIN? Not plannd deliverd so MH = Bullshit

And this freaks think the more making noise on as much communities as possible they could pressure out the features they want!

Should i go further?

So where is the benefit for all this companies having communities. Times changed! And as i have already written i think in 2-3 years the community content will be unbearable. Then we need new ideas that you will get your informations.
One idea: Maybe this companies should invite customers for a community-test: Close your eyes and try to hit nose with your forefinger. You succeed you are allowed to be a community member. Not you are banned... :wink:


I feel sad now....

my ears are burning....Look all I did was ask for a list of things that they knew did not work. As far as the person who threatened that they should die that is wrong and they should be banned for life.

If you think that a list of things that have known issues is out of line, I am sorry. As well your the account you created three months ago to defend your ideals is even funnier. Log in with your real account and have a open conversation. It is hard to take you seriously when it is apparent that you are a long time user, who just happpened to create an account in Feb.

I am sorry again that you think that having an open process is such a bad thing. I personally do not care at all about the change logs, but for some folks who understand what they are it is important.


How is this hard to understand is a little confusing to me, but then again I might be missing something

Hi Headrick!
What do you mean with real account?
I´m evilaci on gearslutz, toontrack, vhtusers and ebay as far as i remember after a hard kilkenny/guiness/ouzo session due to the champions league. Always the same person. So is that all? Just check it out for open conversation! But dont forget! It is all about love and peace.... :)
And i started with Ableton 7 in summer 2008 and i´m a hardcore search-button user.
Now i realize myself i´m even an Suite 8 User..... and i convinced our drummer to buy Intro....
But i´m not a Ableton Fanboy! I plan my recording budget yearly and at least expect a corase-grained overview what i can expect from Live in 2010. This year nothing after massive 2009 announcements.
So to whom do you think have we owe that?
8O

LLF
Posts: 25
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Location: Nyc

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by LLF » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:05 am

+1 for the documentation. Kinda need to review it before jumping into a new version. FFS how many times have I had to use update information to work with troubleshooting?

Weird...

ScudMan
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 3:08 am

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by ScudMan » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:47 am

Dennis DeSantis wrote:Hi folks,

Please understand that the decision to not post changelogs was not an attempt to "whitewash" anything. We simply thought they were too technical and specific to be useful for a wide range of users.

That being said, thanks for the feedback on the topic. We're taking it all into consideration.

Best,
Thx, Dennis. I have found that understanding what was fixed allows me to further discover the product or re-start using features that were causing problems before. It's also a curiosity thing...for example; I noticed that the UI got a little “crisper” with 8.1.3. I was wondering how pervasive these changes were...was anything else cleaned up.

Working in software, I understand the position Ableton has taken, and it is ultimately their choice. That said, I do appreciate having a fix list.
-
ScudMan

Pyro Z
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Location: Chelmsford, MA
Contact:

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by Pyro Z » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:08 am

Dennis DeSantis wrote:Hi folks,

Please understand that the decision to not post changelogs was not an attempt to "whitewash" anything. We simply thought they were too technical and specific to be useful for a wide range of users.

That being said, thanks for the feedback on the topic. We're taking it all into consideration.

Best,
Thank you, Dennis. As long as you are open-minded I think most people will understand. I think the rational sides of both arguements each have merit.

I'm sure every single person on here who's ever read a page of release notes (Ableton or otherwise) has experienced many moments where they go "what the heck?" and get all ----> :?

The reason is simple, it isn't easy or feasible to describe each problem and solution in exact detail. My parents both work in software, I know how this goes.

On the other hand, there are users that really rely upon these kinds of things. You obviously don't want to alienate them. There are legitimate reasons for wanting release notes. They even provide more information than just what has been fixed, they can also give you an idea of what the most common problems in a product are.

Personally, my vote is for release notes to be available. They may cause some confusion or needless worry, but they will make others very happy. To always move forward or to support the past, that is the question. I'll tell you, Microsoft makes me happy every day because I can run Descent on my Windows 7 machine, even though it was made a decade and a half ago. Think about that philosophy for a minute. :wink:
There's no such thing as gravity, the Earth sucks!

ethios4
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:28 am

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by ethios4 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:51 pm

WTH? No changelog??? Considering the history of Live updates that are far less stable than the previous version, I want to know what has been updated so I can decide if it is worth the hassle!!

ShelLuser
Posts: 4030
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Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by ShelLuser » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:24 pm

I agree with evilaci on this. Although I agree that changelogs can be useful IMO nothing beats hands down testing.

Its my assumption that the majority of Live users are not highly technical when it comes to computers and stuff. I base this solely on what I've read on the fora the last months, as well as in other DAW-related places.

In that context I can fully understand why Ableton won't take the time and effort to release these, especially when the only real changes were bugfixes and not so much new / changed features.

Another poster mentioned Max/MSP.. Even there changelogs wouldn't be mandatory when it comes to bugfixes. Usually a product is backwards compatible; so what you made in version 1 will still work in version 5 and up. If you worked your way around a bug it should still behave like you intended.

...unless.. Your workaround is based on behavior which wasn't intentional and could basically be described as a bug :?

Sure, but even then one could ask him/her self; why use something which isn't documented as such? And if we're threading into these regions haven't we already surpassed the level of your average end user?
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

djnron
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:21 pm

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by djnron » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:33 pm

I rely on ableton as my primary creative tool. I have been using it since V3, and, while I know this may be an exception to your primary user base, I feel that changelogs help inform my decisions on which version to download and continue to use.
Please consider this a strong vote +1 for the inclusion of a changelog.
thanks,
n-ron

kabuki
Posts: 1893
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:26 pm
Location: ATX, fyi

Re: 8.1.3 Release Notes/Bug Fixes

Post by kabuki » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:50 pm

Release notes are vital. They allow us to see what issues that are fixed, discern which issues that are still there, and whether features have (OR HAVE NOT) been implemented. I would much rather have a change log to double-check against before a gig, rather than learn the hard-way during a gig. I could read through the BUGs forum, but with Live 8, that would take all the time I have.

A change log would also help folks that are waiting until "X issue" is fixed before they buy to make a smart, informed decision. I would imagine the heads at Ableton would want potential users opinions to be formed from Ableton's data instead of from a bunch of angry, screaming twats on a forum.

Bring back the change logs.
15" PB 2.5 Ghz, 4 Gig RAM, 750 GB HD, Live 9 still no cue points or program change messages?!?. Doesn't do shit.

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