Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

Do you want the CHANGELOG published ?

Yes, of course. Goes without saying.
151
93%
No. Changelogs confuse me.
12
7%
 
Total votes: 163

dum
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Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by dum » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:01 am

Simple question...
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

Zygi
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:10 pm

Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by Zygi » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:06 pm

I live for changelogs & patches ^_^

re.mark
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Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by re.mark » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:27 pm

I think its up to the Company's own discretion. If they've chosen not to include them, that decision should be respected.

anybody human
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Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by anybody human » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:56 pm

Could go either way, wouldn't mind having it but if they don't want to publish it that's their prerogative.

cotdagoo
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Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by cotdagoo » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:03 pm

re.mark wrote:I think its up to the Company's own discretion. If they've chosen not to include them, that decision should be respected.
They've chosen a lot of things this year that haven't exactly panned out how they expected. Decisions be damned.. So long as they're not set in stone I think we have the right to challenge their decision over something like showing a changelog. The only reason it's become a problem this year (and not the other 7) is due to the rampant amount of bugs in v8. At least that's the distinction I can see.

Sure I can see their side of things that it can cause a lot of FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) for the less inclined. However if they're relying on the public to test this software, I feel we have the right to know what they're doing/have done to the software we paid to use.

Create a solid product and you can care less about people seeing a changelog and freaking out after you've listed a billion bugfixes release after release.

Tone Deft
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Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:05 pm

we have rights? this is business, we have no rights. we have this warm fuzzy feeling from Ableton employees directly addressing our posts but we have no rights.

if a changelog helps us to help them, they should post it since they're asking for our help.

people refuse to read Dennis' statements saying that many parts of a changelog are too detailed to go into with customers. I imagine he means that it would read like "function call get_track_widget would not interact correctly with the module midi_device.cc under such and such conditions." this one bug would look like many different things to different users.
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, guitars, JX305, Nova
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ze2be
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Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by ze2be » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:15 pm

I voted yes simply out of curiosity. But I would have voted no, if the question was rephrased: Would you want to see the change log if it created obstacles and lots of extra work for Ableton, when they need to spend time coding?
? ? ? ? ?

pepezabala
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Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by pepezabala » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:23 pm

well, I believe a changelog didn't get published because it would have been surprisingly long and would rather confuse possible investors than possible customers.

Anyway, I am happy that we have a new version, lots of bugs fixed, and even more happy that I only suffered occasional crashes when working in rather big arrangements.

I even did some liveshows with 8.1.1 and had no issues.

Sureno
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Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by Sureno » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:19 pm

it can be the decision maker between updating and not :?

Tone Deft
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Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:21 pm

Sureno wrote:it can be the decision maker between updating and not :?
why?

if you have no problems, don't update.

if you're having problems, update. if it's worse go back a revision.



thinking about it more, do we have ANY rights? do we have the right to get a refund?

FWIW no crashes in over a month and I've been using Live daily, including max4Live. recording audio and midi, using arrange and session view with a handful of midi controllers sync'ed to Live.
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, guitars, JX305, Nova
soundcloud.com/tone-deft

cotdagoo
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Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by cotdagoo » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:27 pm

Tone Deft wrote:we have rights? this is business, we have no rights. we have this warm fuzzy feeling from Ableton employees directly addressing our posts but we have no rights.
Not 'rights' in the traditional sense but I'd say the right to ask for a changelog when they're publicly testing the software. If they are expecting people to have the time to test whether the bug reports they sent in were even looked at, or fixed in order to determine whether the time a paid user has spent sending these reports in was worthwhile or not I think it's more detrimental to exclude a changelog than to share one. Especially if they've done so for the past 7 versions seemingly without issue - which some users have grown accustomed to.

I think Dennis' statements are valid, no doubt. There's a lot of bugfixes listed that are pretty vague (useful for dev/coders) and simply could imply various things to different people, and add to their already full workload. But it just seems odd to rock the boat at this stage in the game.

Bottom line for me is, if they expect people to test this software for them after paying for it, I expect to see what they're doing to address any concerns I might have or other issues I've read about others having without putting in the legwork to find out myself.

There's been a Sylenth1 bug reported since at least Sept 2009, and it's still not fixed. I've sent in bug reports, there's posts about it.. Yet no one has any idea if, or when this is even getting looked at.. Think I'm going to keep testing it in every version? I don't have the time to waste every update, and I have the feeling other users might be in the same boat if they don't know their issues are getting addressed. Transparency is key here imo.

edit:
Tone Deft wrote:thinking about it more, do we have ANY rights? do we have the right to get a refund?
I know I saw one post by someone asking for a refund - abes replied asking them to email or pm. Seemed like it might have been something they could work out if someone really wanted out.

fwiw live's been pretty decent for me lately.. some odd random crashes that are annoying, but overall it's still quite usable

Tone Deft
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Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:39 pm

agreed.

surely it has to come down to EVERYONE wanting this mess to be over with and Ableton will make those decisions.


man, it's gotta be weird to have a forum of people discussing your job performance. let alone knowing your peers at the competition are popping champagne corks over your demise. their next trade show should be interesting. :oops:
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, guitars, JX305, Nova
soundcloud.com/tone-deft

Dennis DeSantis
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Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:45 pm

Tone Deft wrote:man, it's gotta be weird to have a forum of people discussing your job performance. let alone knowing your peers at the competition are popping champagne corks over your demise. their next trade show should be interesting. :oops:
It's not so different than on anyone else's forums, is it?

Some users have issues. Some users don't.

Users with issues are more likely to seek information via communities like this, and are more likely to discuss problems with others.

In any case, we're taking into consideration all of this feedback regarding changelogs.

Best,

housemusiclover
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:54 pm

Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by housemusiclover » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:49 pm

Voted "yes" of course.
I can understand the reasoning of one staffer (sorry, can't remember the name), that we don't need to know about ultra-hypothetic cases which wouldn't really have affected anyone in real life, but stuff that gets fixed due to user-reported crashes should definitely be made public, heck, even Steinberg does it! :lol:

Sureno
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Re: Do you want the CHANGELOG published with each update ?

Post by Sureno » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:03 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
Sureno wrote:it can be the decision maker between updating and not :?
why?
.
because if we DO have a problem and it's not addressed in the latest update why risk updating to encounter new problems?

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