You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
HeadrickProductions
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by HeadrickProductions » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:07 am

trying not to fuel this fire to much, but if they guys leaving really did not impact ableton that much it makes ableton look worse. If I were ableton I would have issued something along with the quality statement blaming those three guys leaving for a large portion of the issues that live 8 had, even if that was not entirely true. It would make them look better and allow consumer's to be more understanding towards the live 8 situation.

Since it did not cause many problems this shows that ableton would have been in the same boat regardless. This means that nothing will really change even if they can afford to hire people to replace them.

Some what disenchanting.

I am also excited to see what bitwig comes up with.
In a K induced Haze (the old K kind not the special K kind ), but an Asian spizz can sometimes bring me out! If ya don't get it, ya never will.

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hoffman2k
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by hoffman2k » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:46 am

HeadrickProductions wrote:trying not to fuel this fire to much, but if they guys leaving really did not impact ableton that much it makes ableton look worse. If I were ableton I would have issued something along with the quality statement blaming those three guys leaving for a large portion of the issues that live 8 had, even if that was not entirely true. It would make them look better and allow consumer's to be more understanding towards the live 8 situation.

Since it did not cause many problems this shows that ableton would have been in the same boat regardless. This means that nothing will really change even if they can afford to hire people to replace them.

Some what disenchanting.

I am also excited to see what bitwig comes up with.
You're the one who wants Ableton to lie to you rather than the statement they would make when this all is over. The disenchanting thing to me is that some of the users would rather watch Ableton burn than pitching in a bucket of crash reports.
Its the same arrogance that make people believe the world will end in their time.
You could probably put more blame on 3phase than on 3 developers. At least the developers didn't waste precious time arguing over why they should provide their system specs.

Angstrom
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by Angstrom » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:54 pm

HeadrickProductions wrote:If I were ableton I would have issued something along with the quality statement blaming those three guys

This made me smile and then laugh, the more I thought about it.
if you cant see why you shouldn't do this, then it is probably impossible for me to explain it.

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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by Angstrom » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:57 pm

hoffman2k wrote: You could probably put more blame on 3phase than on 3 developers. At least the developers didn't waste precious time arguing over why they should provide their system specs.
I don't think that's entirely fair, although 3phase is a bit "talkative", I think it's OK to state that we know for sure he has helped fix a couple of bugs. He bought his right to annoy. ;)
... and it did actually contribute to fixing certain issues in the app.

hoffman2k
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by hoffman2k » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:42 pm

Angstrom wrote:
hoffman2k wrote: You could probably put more blame on 3phase than on 3 developers. At least the developers didn't waste precious time arguing over why they should provide their system specs.
I don't think that's entirely fair, although 3phase is a bit "talkative", I think it's OK to state that we know for sure he has helped fix a couple of bugs. He bought his right to annoy. ;)
... and it did actually contribute to fixing certain issues in the app.
Well yeah. After how many times asking him to participate?
He did indeed clear up a lot of bugs that were hard to reproduce. And he was one of the first to experience some nasty bugs. And the first months he argued with Ableton.
These bugs could have gotten rid with before all the Share/Serato/M4L changes.
Its not his duty to report bugs, but the time he spends defending his own negative comments could have easily made Live at least 20% more stable for us and 80% more stable for him.

I can relate to his experiences though. Everything he tries breaks. Its frustrating and there are only 2 options. Report and pray or curse and rant.
Poster and I were in the exact same situation a couple of years ago. I'd hardly call it a coincidence that our experience with Live 8 is very smooth. Break it, report it and update... Do it all year around and you'll do wonders for your blood pressure.

As for the 3 developers that left.. I'd say "Basil" being gone had a bigger impact on Ableton than the guys that left for BitWig. They received an innovation grant, its hardly going to be a copy of Live. And that grant was won in sequencer city...
Placing any bets for NAMM? :D

Dalski
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by Dalski » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:19 pm

HeadrickProductions wrote:trying not to fuel this fire to much, but if they guys leaving really did not impact ableton that much it makes ableton look worse. If I were ableton I would have issued something along with the quality statement blaming those three guys leaving for a large portion of the issues that live 8 had, even if that was not entirely true. It would make them look better and allow consumer's to be more understanding towards the live 8 situation.
...and then get sued for libel, spend thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) on court fees and fines = less funds for developing Live = less features = less profits and so on and so on...

:?

HeadrickProductions
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by HeadrickProductions » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:24 am

Let me correct my statement. I think they should have come out and explained that they have had folks leave and it affected their debugging. Those boys leaving had some effect because we all saw the posts that they were rehiring people specifically to do coding. The word blame was to strong, i am sorry and take that back. I did not want them to lie. I meant to say that the community would have been more understanding if we knew that three folks left as 8 was being released to form their own company. BLAME was the incorrect word. I know that i would hav been more understanding if I would have know this. Instead I just thought that ableton did not give a shit that people were having (and are still having) issues with live 8.

What I am attempting to say is that they should have never released ableton 8 until it was debugged and things like the rewire issue, 3rd party plugs, looper, share function, midi sync, max for live issues, and the many other things that they knew as they choose to sell the product.


For those who are some how saying that 3phase is some how to blame, are a little confused. He did not sell the product or code the product so I do not know how the quality of the product has anything to do with him.



Before ya think that I'm just a hater, ableton has gotten better for me personally. I think it is still garbage that a company can sell an "instrument" that does not perform.
In a K induced Haze (the old K kind not the special K kind ), but an Asian spizz can sometimes bring me out! If ya don't get it, ya never will.

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rompling
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by rompling » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:46 am

Angus_FX
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Hi,

The problem is that Live's configure mode in v8 requires some extra functionality that GURU 1.6 doesn't have, as it was released prior to Live 8. Specifically, configure mode only works in plugins that send a notification to the host when the user touches the plug-in's controls. GURU doesn't presently do that. We asked Ableton to provide a workaround, but they declined.

Which basically means that, for the time being, host automation in Live 8 is broken wrt GURU, and you have to use MIDI automation instead (as per the GURU MIDI Implementation documentation).

Sorry if I`m posting this from another forum and if or has been already posted it looks to me that abelton dosen`t want to help 3rd party developers or just the ones theat have been made " abelton partners " no suprise that 8 is so buggy then if they are not helping fellow software developers overcome potential compatibility issues :?:
Pc Dual core 3gb Ram Live 8 ,Reason 4, Novation X station Akai MPC1000 Novation Nio2/4 M Audio BX 5 Korg Zero 8 Novation Nocturn & Launchpad
Been on live since version 2 but ableton forum has somehow only had me down as a user since 08 doh !

Tone Deft
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:24 am

HeadrickProductions wrote:Let me correct my statement. I think they should have come out and explained that they have had folks leave and it affected their debugging. Those boys leaving had some effect because we all saw the posts that they were rehiring people specifically to do coding. The word blame was to strong, i am sorry and take that back. I did not want them to lie. I meant to say that the community would have been more understanding if we knew that three folks left as 8 was being released to form their own company. BLAME was the incorrect word. I know that i would hav been more understanding if I would have know this. Instead I just thought that ableton did not give a shit that people were having (and are still having) issues with live 8.

What I am attempting to say is that they should have never released ableton 8 until it was debugged and things like the rewire issue, 3rd party plugs, looper, share function, midi sync, max for live issues, and the many other things that they knew as they choose to sell the product.


For those who are some how saying that 3phase is some how to blame, are a little confused. He did not sell the product or code the product so I do not know how the quality of the product has anything to do with him.



Before ya think that I'm just a hater, ableton has gotten better for me personally. I think it is still garbage that a company can sell an "instrument" that does not perform.
your advice is for Ableton to act like cowards and hide behind ex-employees.

what you don't see is that they're doing the opposite. the put up a freaking sticky saying their product is fcuked AND they've been very open about saying that yes, paying customers need to be beta testers (ouch!) on top of that they only lightly moderate this forum and welcome people to criticize their products, talk as much smack as they want and lay it all out there, warts in all.

I'll skip the half-assed business plan crap you've laid out (wow man.) you DO NOT know at all what the impact of those departing employees was. if you had a clue about the software engineering world you'd know it would not freaking matter. a manager can do the job of his underlings. it's clear you've never worked in the professional world, please stop posting like you know what's up, stop reading between the lines.

as for 3phase, he's wasted LOTS of time of the people at Ableton by writing them e-mails and very little time debugging. he's pissed, wants things fixed and claims to be too busy to do any testing. it's probably best to stay out of other peoples' dramas, he's already having a hard time.

it's frustrating reading all this speculation.
/vent

cheers to more stable Live times. :?
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gerard
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by gerard » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:27 am

Live 8 sucks full-ass! No half-measures here...
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Dennis DeSantis
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:26 pm

Hi folks,

To summarize:

- for some people, 8.1.3 is an improvement over previous Live 8 versions
- for some people, 8.1.3 continues to be problematic

Ableton has not and will not ever ship software that was known to be unusable. The fact that there are people using Live without issues should make this clear.

For those of you that are having problems, however, we accept full responsibility and would like to fix them. So if you do experience bugs or crashes, please let us know.

Thanks,

3phase
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by 3phase » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:06 pm

hoffman2k wrote:
HeadrickProductions wrote:trying not to fuel this fire to much, but if they guys leaving really did not impact ableton that much it makes ableton look worse. If I were ableton I would have issued something along with the quality statement blaming those three guys leaving for a large portion of the issues that live 8 had, even if that was not entirely true. It would make them look better and allow consumer's to be more understanding towards the live 8 situation.

Since it did not cause many problems this shows that ableton would have been in the same boat regardless. This means that nothing will really change even if they can afford to hire people to replace them.

Some what disenchanting.

I am also excited to see what bitwig comes up with.
You're the one who wants Ableton to lie to you rather than the statement they would make when this all is over. The disenchanting thing to me is that some of the users would rather watch Ableton burn than pitching in a bucket of crash reports.
Its the same arrogance that make people believe the world will end in their time.
You could probably put more blame on 3phase than on 3 developers. At least the developers didn't waste precious time arguing over why they should provide their system specs.

blame me for ableons crashes? so its my bugs again? you re mental men... if oit wouldnt be so stupid i could call it allmost criminal to say such things...

i ve nothing to do with abletons mistakes..i dont work for them...and i dont code the shit or supervise the coding process..

live is clearly messed up ..and this has nothing to do with the users.. or maybe it has to do something to do with the users.. stupid users that influence them to integrate more and more abstract features nobody needs instead fixing the basics..an integration of max.. oh my.. and what is with the integration of an own audio editor? or timecode? or .or or? first things first i guess......and than all the bugs that slipped thru with your betatesting... silent sheep users really bring a daw forward i guess..as long nobody complains everything is wright.. and when its just complaining about missing paragraphs in the manual..beeing silent don´t helps anybody here.. and lies about the state of L8 dont help either.. i had a crash with data loss last week...
the recorded track is gone.. it was good..who compensates for the loss?



I am not silent about problems like all you super duper fanboy beta testers.. ableton flys blind because theire ignorance and people like you that tooth all the time the "everythng is fine..its only bad users out there " horn..

read your own posts from last year..you allways say the same..its allways allwright... i guess you get paied by ableton...

Btw...
they stopped to time limit the betas now..

i wonder where they got that idea from...usually they dont seem to have much sensetivity for such details...
its so unableton like to try to make the process less painfull...

years ago i asked for a utility plug.. they mailed back for waht i would need such a thing for.. i mailed back..and in the next versio it was there...
just funny that i had to explain what its for.. but good that its there..


i also went very loud when L4 didnt had offset delays in tracks..midi without offset ..thanks.. :-/
i got my update money back and live got offset delays..

i dont know how many users have hit in the same gap back than.. but be beeing quite and nice about any crap implementation dont helps...

and blaming me for ableton faults dont helps either
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Dennis DeSantis
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:16 pm

3phase wrote:and when its just complaining about missing paragraphs in the manual
What would you like to see in the manual that you're missing? This is actually an area that I can work on personally.

Thanks,

Tone Deft
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:32 pm

Dennis DeSantis wrote:
3phase wrote:and when its just complaining about missing paragraphs in the manual
What would you like to see in the manual that you're missing? This is actually an area that I can work on personally.

Thanks,
Delay Compensation isn't in the manual. there are lots of buzzwords associated with Live that I've gone to look up and it seems they're never there. guess I should start taking notes on which words I've looked up.
In my life
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At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

3phase
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by 3phase » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:44 pm

Dennis DeSantis wrote:
3phase wrote:and when its just complaining about missing paragraphs in the manual
What would you like to see in the manual that you're missing? This is actually an area that I can work on personally.

Thanks,

i missed that scene export is possible now.. i waited for this since L1.5 with was the first version i tried...

and i missed it before any gig in the last years.. again and again..

I heard rumors thats possible and checked the manual.. nothing in scene related paragraphs and searches..

now.. people told me that it works just with a drag and drop on the browser..

there is a portion about that in the manual.. more or less one or 2 sentences without the mention of scenes..
its called "verschmelzung von set"s in german... verschmelzung..nice word.. but i think in the future i will reference the englisch manual because verschmelzen is not a term used in studio practice..

i recomend to refference and mention scene export as such in the scene related paragraphs and indexes..

and maybe elaborate a bit more about the drag and drop concept of the browser..

index english terms in the german manual.. so a serach for merging will bring up the verschmelzungs chapter..

and while we are at it.. i think drag and drop commands should have an expression in the sub menus...

otherwise a user never comes along them without consulting the manual.. and when such a function like sceen export is hidden in other praragraphs like set verschemelzung... you only find them by carfully reading the whole manual.. and how often do you do that? once a year?

sorry. the export of scenes is within live like the export of patterns...

a very basic function.. of cause the merging of sets might lead to it.. but not really.thats not what we really do ..merging complete sets sounds so heavy..ther is just a little half sentence that indicates that it might work with just a secen aswell.. (..or parts of it."..)

its somehow hidden... or too little words about a big functionality
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

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