You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
WaveRider
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by WaveRider » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:49 pm

Dennis DeSantis wrote: - for some people, 8.1.3 continues to be problematic

this is my case, I'll make an extra effeort and send you some files... (music computer not on the internet...)

HeadrickProductions
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by HeadrickProductions » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:52 pm

How dare you pay for a product just to beta test it 3phase SHAME ON YOU

You should be happy to spend time fixing live 8 :mrgreen:
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3phase
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by 3phase » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:58 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
Dennis DeSantis wrote:
3phase wrote:and when its just complaining about missing paragraphs in the manual
What would you like to see in the manual that you're missing? This is actually an area that I can work on personally.

Thanks,
Delay Compensation isn't in the manual. there are lots of buzzwords associated with Live that I've gone to look up and it seems they're never there. guess I should start taking notes on which words I've looked up.

one thing i also was never able to find is the clock out mode song and pattern.. as expected that is with or without song position pointer..at least thats the idea i got... but wasnt able to back that up in the manual..
at least i havent found it...

actually pattern mode should function like in the kenton din sync interfaces.. live should count the pulses and generate a new start command at the next one.. so you dont allways have to start at 1:1:1 when using hardware that dont understands song position pointer in arrange mode..
thats a feature request now.. one i ve made allready in the feature request forum years ago..

but dont hurts to say it again and again :-)
even when live is ment to do it all without external hardware there will be allways musicans that like to have some on stage..especially when they work in bands and dont like to be totaly computer relatet during the show.. however on stage it dont matters so much because you are usully in session mode there...
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3phase
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by 3phase » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:06 pm

HeadrickProductions wrote:How dare you pay for a product just to beta test it 3phase SHAME ON YOU

You should be happy to spend time fixing live 8 :mrgreen:

as long i dont have gigs or deadlines its no problem.. problem with the nature of the l8 bugs was for me tht they only showed up when running heavy loads.. like direct before a gig or tape delivery..

when it would be bugs you just come along any day i would have been much more relaxed about it..

but i actually really lost money because of l8 bugs.. lost data.. had to go to another studio and mixed it analog with protools than.. 300 euro extra ...and scared away a booker that had the luck to have 2 gigs in line from me with crashes during the show... thats not good for the reputation... i guess this guy wont book me again.
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Tone Deft
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:27 pm

3phase wrote:
HeadrickProductions wrote:How dare you pay for a product just to beta test it 3phase SHAME ON YOU

You should be happy to spend time fixing live 8 :mrgreen:

as long i dont have gigs or deadlines its no problem.. problem with the nature of the l8 bugs was for me tht they only showed up when running heavy loads.. like direct before a gig or tape delivery..

when it would be bugs you just come along any day i would have been much more relaxed about it..

but i actually really lost money because of l8 bugs.. lost data.. had to go to another studio and mixed it analog with protools than.. 300 euro extra ...and scared away a booker that had the luck to have 2 gigs in line from me with crashes during the show... thats not good for the reputation... i guess this guy wont book me again.
true. it's also good to keep in mind that there are sooooo many ways to use Live, we don't all hit the same use cases. take taximouse's bugs, clear as day to her but she's doing stuff most people don't.
HeadrickProductions wrote:How dare you pay for a product just to beta test it 3phase SHAME ON YOU

You should be happy to spend time fixing live 8 :mrgreen:
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hoffman2k
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by hoffman2k » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:37 pm

3phase wrote:blame me for ableons crashes? so its my bugs again? you re mental men... if oit wouldnt be so stupid i could call it allmost criminal to say such things...

i ve nothing to do with abletons mistakes..i dont work for them...and i dont code the shit or supervise the coding process..

live is clearly messed up ..and this has nothing to do with the users.. or maybe it has to do something to do with the users.. stupid users that influence them to integrate more and more abstract features nobody needs instead fixing the basics..an integration of max.. oh my.. and what is with the integration of an own audio editor? or timecode? or .or or? first things first i guess......and than all the bugs that slipped thru with your betatesting... silent sheep users really bring a daw forward i guess..as long nobody complains everything is wright.. and when its just complaining about missing paragraphs in the manual..beeing silent don´t helps anybody here.. and lies about the state of L8 dont help either.. i had a crash with data loss last week...
the recorded track is gone.. it was good..who compensates for the loss?



I am not silent about problems like all you super duper fanboy beta testers.. ableton flys blind because theire ignorance and people like you that tooth all the time the "everythng is fine..its only bad users out there " horn..

read your own posts from last year..you allways say the same..its allways allwright... i guess you get paied by ableton...

Btw...
they stopped to time limit the betas now..

i wonder where they got that idea from...usually they dont seem to have much sensetivity for such details...
its so unableton like to try to make the process less painfull...

years ago i asked for a utility plug.. they mailed back for waht i would need such a thing for.. i mailed back..and in the next versio it was there...
just funny that i had to explain what its for.. but good that its there..


i also went very loud when L4 didnt had offset delays in tracks..midi without offset ..thanks.. :-/
i got my update money back and live got offset delays..

i dont know how many users have hit in the same gap back than.. but be beeing quite and nice about any crap implementation dont helps...

and blaming me for ableton faults dont helps either
So you're saying: the times you gave Ableton feedback about their application, they got back to you. Even made changes and added a plugin. Exactly my experience too, wonderful isn't it?

Try and find one post made by me that suggest Live works fine anywhere other than on my own system. I wish you good luck with that, because I know it for a fact that Live doesn't behave as well on other systems. You should see Live run on an Acer laptop at factory settings.

So its the fault of the beta testers that they didn't find the bugs that they didn't experience? Where does that put the people who didn't test it, find bugs, don't report them and waste their time ranting, finally report their bugs, get those bugs fixed and then go right back again ranting about how "Ableton doesn't care".

I must say, its definitely a challenge to make a person realize that helping Ableton helps themselves. But it gets even trickier when the people actually got helped by Ableton and still don't believe they want to help.
People having Schadenfreude over something they would not want to see harmed. You can't make this shit up.

As for blaming you, I suppose that went over your head. You've done nothing but blaming Ableton and their staff about all sorts of things. Its a thread about crashes and the subject of 3 (developers) came up.
I honestly have no idea why a nonsensical statement and the number 3 led to that poor joke about the phenomenon that is 3phase. The lesson there is: Don't reply to comments like that at 6AM. Its really too early in the day to be thinking about you.

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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by 3phase » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:41 pm

hoffman2k wrote:[

Well yeah. After how many times asking him to participate?
He did indeed clear up a lot of bugs that were hard to reproduce. And he was one of the first to experience some nasty bugs. And the first months he argued with Ableton.

You forget to mention that ableton has dropped my support case..because i wasnt able to give them a reproduceable bug..called it my bug.. i had to reproduce...

i told them that i let it run..with midi tracks.. and that i thnk that it s a midi related bug.. maybe a midi feedback thing... and than i light a cigarette..and it crashes..

therfore they dropped my support case... and called me ranter.. so i started ranting..


later it turned out that my initial diagnosis wasnt so far off.. it realy was the cigarette smoke
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hoffman2k
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by hoffman2k » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:49 pm

HeadrickProductions wrote:How dare you pay for a product just to beta test it 3phase SHAME ON YOU

You should be happy to spend time fixing live 8 :mrgreen:
Nah, its way more productive to rant about how things aren't getting fixed. With the key to getting it fixed sitting in a folder somewhere on your computer.

And beta testing... Lets call it what it really is... Its using Live as you normally would and if something doesn't work as it supposed to, you report it to get it fixed. So what is the difference between beta testing and using Live?
A statement like "Live users are beta testers" isn't actually that clever once you realize its always been that way. With every application you use. The only difference here is that in this case there were more bugs to deal with, which made for this whole nasty experience. Funny how people seem to believe they can change company policies with witty posts but a bug report will go ignored.

macmurphy
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by macmurphy » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:50 pm

simple question 3phase :- if you are so dissatisfied with Live why don't you use another sequencer?

i'm just curious.

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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by 3phase » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:59 pm

hoffman2k wrote:: Don't reply to comments like that at 6AM. Its really too early in the day to be thinking about you.

i think the problem with your almost hostile aproach towards me is that i was too often wright, if you liked it or not...and that hurts


And i had a good immage from ableton in the past despite all drawbacks i really was promoting them at many ocassions.. helped with the conception of an electronic production course wher they first time teached ableton live there...as result of my input.. they thought its a toy.. i convincend tem thats a tool on the uprise..

now its standard there.. and other ocasions.. they really cant complain about my support..

but dropping my support case after i had the problem in front of 2000 people because i wasnt kind enough to explain my studio setup in detail.. and it was so 100% clear that this had nothing to do with it..
at least when you experiance as an allmost 10 year user strange crashes and loud clicks you know its either your os or the software..

and asking for possible crash problems related to mac os on the forum was called ranting..

and not being anle to reproduce random crash bugs make them ignoring the case !!!

sorry.. when such things happen you know a little cpmpany jas grown to quickly and has the nose a bit high.,

therfore i decided to bring it all on the table.. and friendly as i am i brought it to theire own table.. theire own forum..

so actually if the feel anoyed about that.. its fine for me.. payback....

however i regulary informed them about problems.. indpendend from forum actions.. also already and before the times wher you asked me to send them bug reports..

i allways did.. not any.. otherwise i wouldnt have the time for the forum.. but regulary...

its not my job to find all possible bugs just because i am pissed off
Last edited by 3phase on Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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hoffman2k
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by hoffman2k » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:00 pm

3phase wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:[

Well yeah. After how many times asking him to participate?
He did indeed clear up a lot of bugs that were hard to reproduce. And he was one of the first to experience some nasty bugs. And the first months he argued with Ableton.

You forget to mention that ableton has dropped my support case..because i wasnt able to give them a reproduceable bug..called it my bug.. i had to reproduce...

i told them that i let it run..with midi tracks.. and that i thnk that it s a midi related bug.. maybe a midi feedback thing... and than i light a cigarette..and it crashes..

therfore they dropped my support case... and called me ranter.. so i started ranting..


later it turned out that my initial diagnosis wasnt so far off.. it realy was the cigarette smoke
Well yeah, you turned it into passive aggressiveness. You don't really need to explain that. You're being an obstructionist for the sake of it.
Damn hard to dismiss my comments as "criminal" if you just admit it in your next reply.
Why you just don't take a damn walk to their office with your laptop is beyond me. You'll get to rant to their faces and Amuary will even make you some coffee.

3phase
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by 3phase » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:08 pm

macmurphy wrote:simple question 3phase :- if you are so dissatisfied with Live why don't you use another sequencer?

i'm just curious.

live was still in development and based on a pattern concept...

i hoped they would have developed better or more in the initial direction of the program... but ok..the kids love theier plug ins..and theire presets ...

so it took long..and than it turned bad.. do we wait now or do we change?

pattern based is important for me.. i am not the guy that is composing one song...
not alone.. so software like logic/cubase is only usefull for me when doing final arrangements with the team or customers..

before live i was using opcode studio vison..after breaking up with logic in 1995 i stayed with opcode studio vision..still unmatched in many regards as stage software..

and than moved to live shortly after opcode collapsed/disappeard..while beeing on logic again..

still the combination i am riding today.still missing studio vision...

i am open for a pattern based alternativ..but? ther is none

so i prefer that ableton gets theire act together and play the bad user part...
in this cuddely teletubby world this is a real duty.
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hoffman2k
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by hoffman2k » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:10 pm

3phase wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:: Don't reply to comments like that at 6AM. Its really too early in the day to be thinking about you.

i think the problem with your almost hostile aproach towards me is that i was too often wright, if you liked it or not...and that hurts
No, it just proves I'm every bit as stubborn as you are. You're being passive aggressive in almost every thread you participate in, its hurtful in the way that it destroys a community to share ideas, music and experiences.
I don't care if I'm wrong or right. I know you're wrong and on an internet forum discussion that is all that really matters.

Its not your job to get rid of the bugs you experience, indeed. But your only options are to hope they disappear or make them disappear. Other options are: Changing Software, Going back to hardware, rant on endlessly, bribing a developer, kidnapping a developer, seducing a developer and last but not least: Buy Gerhard a nice new scarf!

Dennis DeSantis
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:28 pm

Hi folks,

Not to get all moderator-y, but this thread has devolved into a bit of a flamewar, no?

If, as has been suggested, the goal is to make Live into a better, more stable product, then I would propose that rather than simply filling thread after thread with "Ableton sucks," try a format more like this:

---
"Ableton sucks. Here's a bug reporting pack that demonstrates a crash. Here's some information about what I was doing before that crash:

- X
- Y
- Z

My system specs:
A processor
B operating system
C audio hardware
D MIDI and/or USB controllers

I can reproduce this using E and F, but it doesn't seem to happen if I do G."
---

"Ableton sucks" alone may feel cathartic, but it's actually not helpful - not because it's insulting (we're soulless robots, so that's a non-issue), but because it lacks usable data.

Thanks,

3phase
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Re: You Do Realize that 8.1.3 still crashes ALL THE TIME???!!?!?

Post by 3phase » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:33 pm

hoffman2k wrote: Damn hard to dismiss my comments as "criminal" if you just admit it in your next reply.
Why you just don't take a damn walk to their office with your laptop is beyond me. You'll get to rant to their faces and Amuary will even make you some coffee.
criminal because you willingly bend the truth.. i just was telling the truth and experssing my opinion.. in maybe not very kind words.. but i never made something up to hurt ableton..
you are making soemthing up when you tell i am responsible for the delays in bug hunt..
thats clearly not the case

sorry.. theese dropped support case and the total ignoring of fatal bugs ..that really sucked..

i even wrote a letter to the ableton boss to tell that they cant ignore random crashbugs and leave it to the users to isolate them..that they have to track them themself before a user even knows about them..and i told him that i am just the tip of the iceberg..that he will have more issues in the near future...

And thats just what happend.. but it needed month from that point for them to acknowledeg the bug ..
and that was teh time i really started to open my mouth.. because i realized that you realy have ti help them to get the bugs..by creating force on the forum.

Theire brazil routine just didnt allowed them to do it any other way..

And that mr hoffman was the 2-3 month wasted on the bug hunt.. not listening to the warning ..
Not that i havent reproduced it for them or followed the brazil routine as friendly customers do...

If they would have like to see it they would have invited me over instead dropping the whole case..
I would have shown them the cigarette trick.. but with a dropped case?

actually if i would have been really mean i would just have stayed totaly quiet from that point...

instead i worked really hard to make them realize the 32 bit buzz sound bug..

it took around 2-3 month again and involving the main forum to get it to theire attention..

they just dont belive serious users.. because they are so used to all the bloody beginners and user errors that you really have to proove them the exsitance of the bug...

sorry..that is beta testers work.. user feedback is just naming the bug... the rest is the job of the betatesters

it very unique with ableton that booth are one...
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