Hello,
First of all...I'm a musician, I'm NO DJ. I do mainly tech/deep progressive house, but I want to set up a live presentation. It's been a while since I've been doing music, and I got to the point where I want to make a live presentation with it.
Firstly, I decided that I want to use Ableton Live. Then, I decided that some kind of dj_set_like presentation should be the way to go. Now, I'm no DJ, so I don't know how to prepare a set, I mean, how the arrangement should be, do's and don'ts. I wanna keep the crowd interested, I want to create a climax.
This is not a technical Live question, it's more aimed at the conceptual part of preparing a set. I'm sure there's a lot of people here who is already gigging a lot and has valuable knowledge to share.
How to build up? How to create climax? How long to stay with the same song? Maybe some tips/tricks? WHAT NOT TO DO?
Ideas, thoughts, anecdotes, links, maybe books, whatever is good!
I'm no DJ, but want to do a live presentation...Your wisdom?
-
tomperson
- Posts: 1018
- Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:55 am
- Location: MVD, Uruguay, South America
- Contact:
I'm no DJ, but want to do a live presentation...Your wisdom?
Turn up the radio. Turn up the tape machine. Look into the sunset up ahead. Roll the windows down for a better taste of the cool desert wind. Ah yes. This is what it's all about. Total control now.
Speaking myself as a DJ who has not performed in front of a large audience, you are probably not ready to perform live for awhile. =) Your enthusiasm is valuble, though... if it's a goal that you're really interested in, start going to clubs and watching DJ's there. You'll start to get a feel for how they build up energy, transition around, and so forth. Once you're able to PA sets in your own house for a good hour or two without trainwrecking, you'll probably have a good feel about where your music needs to go next.
So yeah, I guess this is kind of the blind leading the blind, but I just thought I'd toss in my 2 cents. =)
So yeah, I guess this is kind of the blind leading the blind, but I just thought I'd toss in my 2 cents. =)
I'm gonna offer a different opinion just for the hell of it.
trainwreck every tune.
just pick great tunes that are fresh and interesting and put them together in a fun way. ever made a mix tape? don't take the DJ thing too seriously, really, you play records at a party so people can dance and have a nice time. It's not like your preforming surgery, just make sure you and the rest of the party have a good time.
It's very easy using live to create mixed sets that would have demonstrated fantastic skill in adjusting record speeds 4 years ago.
"Do soming as long as you can, when it gets boring, change."
trainwreck every tune.
just pick great tunes that are fresh and interesting and put them together in a fun way. ever made a mix tape? don't take the DJ thing too seriously, really, you play records at a party so people can dance and have a nice time. It's not like your preforming surgery, just make sure you and the rest of the party have a good time.
It's very easy using live to create mixed sets that would have demonstrated fantastic skill in adjusting record speeds 4 years ago.
"Do soming as long as you can, when it gets boring, change."
Just a few advices that MIGHT be of help:
Try exporting your songs as individual loops (drums, bassline, etc), so you can work 'in detail'.
Open up live, shove 'em in the session view (wich is a more direct, efficient and 'live' way, imho, to preview and create sets.)
Start creating some 'compositions' with these elements.
Once you get the hold of it, try Live's plugins singularly on every track, and decide wich one suits/sounds best for what you want to do.
Play your sets in your studio/bedroom/whatsoever, and experiment experiment experiment.
And remember, once you get the feel of it and are comfortable with your sets, you can search vst's or vsti's to complement what you need (you want to play a live 'piano'? You can download a vsti that does this, and use it live in Live. You want to use a vst to do a stutter effect on the track's master? You can download it. www.kvr-vst.com is a good source, for example)
And don't forget that the arrangement view is there to complement the session view. You actually realize you need something more complex? Record a session view, switch to arrangement and do all the tweaking.
You can then export the edited 'loop', and use it directly in the session view.
This is the power of Live.
Sorry for being quite vague, but I'm busy with work atm.
Anyway, best regards with your work, buddy.
Cheers.
Try exporting your songs as individual loops (drums, bassline, etc), so you can work 'in detail'.
Open up live, shove 'em in the session view (wich is a more direct, efficient and 'live' way, imho, to preview and create sets.)
Start creating some 'compositions' with these elements.
Once you get the hold of it, try Live's plugins singularly on every track, and decide wich one suits/sounds best for what you want to do.
Play your sets in your studio/bedroom/whatsoever, and experiment experiment experiment.
And remember, once you get the feel of it and are comfortable with your sets, you can search vst's or vsti's to complement what you need (you want to play a live 'piano'? You can download a vsti that does this, and use it live in Live. You want to use a vst to do a stutter effect on the track's master? You can download it. www.kvr-vst.com is a good source, for example)
And don't forget that the arrangement view is there to complement the session view. You actually realize you need something more complex? Record a session view, switch to arrangement and do all the tweaking.
You can then export the edited 'loop', and use it directly in the session view.
This is the power of Live.
Sorry for being quite vague, but I'm busy with work atm.
Anyway, best regards with your work, buddy.
Cheers.
I think someone told this very same thing to a very drunk derek plaslaiko last time I saw him spin at a party....bencodec wrote:I'm gonna offer a different opinion just for the hell of it.
trainwreck every tune.
just pick great tunes that are fresh and interesting and put them together in a fun way. ever made a mix tape? don't take the DJ thing too seriously, really, you play records at a party so people can dance and have a nice time. It's not like your preforming surgery, just make sure you and the rest of the party have a good time.
yeah, but he did it with that screwed-up Concentrating Really Hard look on his face....sqook wrote:I think someone told this very same thing to a very drunk derek plaslaiko last time I saw him spin at a party....bencodec wrote:I'm gonna offer a different opinion just for the hell of it.
trainwreck every tune.
just pick great tunes that are fresh and interesting and put them together in a fun way. ever made a mix tape? don't take the DJ thing too seriously, really, you play records at a party so people can dance and have a nice time. It's not like your preforming surgery, just make sure you and the rest of the party have a good time.
hahahah
-
tomperson
- Posts: 1018
- Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:55 am
- Location: MVD, Uruguay, South America
- Contact:
Yup
Several DJs are already playing my music, and I've been encouraged to go out and just "play" many times. I'm that kind of studio-rat, working with Cubase, FruityLoops, VSTIs and such, you know.
My main goal is to learn from the experience, bring new ideas to my compositions, etc...And have as much fun as possible in the process. Doing dance/electronic music without knowing what's into playing it, is like designing a car without ever riding one...If you know what I mean.
I used to be a clubber, so I kinda know when the audience is excited, and what goes on on a DJ presentation...But that's very different from doing it yourself, right?
For now I just wanna mix and use effects, not do anything too fancy (ie live VSTIs and such)...after all, if I want to compose, I can do that at home...
That's why I ask for your advice and tips, as you are already doing that...I guess there's not a cookbok for Djing, but there must be "guidelines" at least...
My main goal is to learn from the experience, bring new ideas to my compositions, etc...And have as much fun as possible in the process. Doing dance/electronic music without knowing what's into playing it, is like designing a car without ever riding one...If you know what I mean.
I used to be a clubber, so I kinda know when the audience is excited, and what goes on on a DJ presentation...But that's very different from doing it yourself, right?
For now I just wanna mix and use effects, not do anything too fancy (ie live VSTIs and such)...after all, if I want to compose, I can do that at home...
That's why I ask for your advice and tips, as you are already doing that...I guess there's not a cookbok for Djing, but there must be "guidelines" at least...
Turn up the radio. Turn up the tape machine. Look into the sunset up ahead. Roll the windows down for a better taste of the cool desert wind. Ah yes. This is what it's all about. Total control now.
-
cosmosuave
- Posts: 1774
- Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:36 am
- Location: Toronto
- Contact:
Here is some advice I have found useful....
Credit go's to..
http://www.sneakthief.com
Live PA Checklist
(this list has been compiled thanks to helpful suggestions from those on the livepa.org, EM411.com, and the now-defunct Moving-Parts & Topica livePA mailing lists)
1) Ask beforehand about the setup if possible and don't forget to make your needs very clear. I highly recommend printing out a simple rider that spells out exactly what you require - some promoters might forget that you need power connectors, table space, an audio input into the sound system, etc. (Note: to prevent power issues and line noise, avoid going on the same electrical circuit as the discolights/fogmachine/etc.)
2) Make an equipment checklist and use it before every show. It's so easy to forget one little thing that will prevent you from playing. Having your own power bar is essential if you need more than one outlet and always bring duct tape).
3) Don't be afraid of writing down a listing of all the tracks you have - that way, if you're doing any kind of spontaneous transitions, you can quickly choose what you might want to play next. (and NO, I don't necessarily mean a pre-planned set list). Also consider making notes for patch numbers and changes, volume levels, or anything else that’s essential to your live workflow.
4) Know ALL your cable connections inside and out. Check your cables beforehand and make sure they're all working... even midi cables go bad, and when they do it can be very frustrating because you might not think to check the cable when midi data isn't being transmitted properly.
5) Mark your cables with coloured tape or label-tiewraps (so you know what goes where). Don’t forget the duct tape!
6) Bring a flashlight - lighting conditions can vary and chances are you will need one.
7) Bring many different types of *extra* connectors because you never know what kind of audio inputs/cables the venue will have. If you’re using a laptop, you might want to also bring a power connector that removes the ground (aka a ground lift) - this can help get rid of grounding problems (50/60Hz hum).
8) Consider putting a compressor/limiter on your final mix - it comes in handy for sounds that get a little out of control. Remember, records have gone through a whole mastering process and will generally deliver a consistent volume range, whereas live sound can have some pretty crazy dynamics (but try not to squash your mix if you limit/compress it).
9) A monitor is necessary, or at least headphones. You will find that listening to both will help give you a better idea of what's being heard on the dancefloor. Nevertheless, what you hear from the monitor speakers is NOT what the people hear on the dancefloor.
10) Soundcheck! If you are fortunate enough to have the opportunity to setup your equipment before the event starts, take some time to LISTEN TO YOUR SET ON THE DANCEFLOOR! This is essential, even if you don't get a soundcheck, run out onto the dancefloor when you first start playing so you can get an idea of how everything sounds.
11) If the room sounds bad, a 10, 20 or 30 band eq will allow you to compensate for it. every room has a resonant frequency that may detract from your sound - Not to mention, all sound systems are eq'd differently.
12) Be friendly to whoever is doing sound because they can make or break your set through carelessness or malice. A good sound engineer will let you know if you’re running a signal that’s too high or too low, and will also be on duty to make sure that the sound system levels are staying consistent. A lazy or unfriendly sound engineer won’t give a damn if your set sounds like crap because your output is clipping and the limiters are squashing your set. If people are running away from the dancefloor, then you better check and see if you’re killing them with unfriendly mid-high frequencies, clipping or distortion.
13) If there isn’t a sound engineer, you can try to find someone who’s sober enough to let you know if any of your levels are going astray or if there are problems with the sound system.
14) Consider using at least 2 sequencers/laptops (or at least an extra drum machine). If one of them crashes, you'll at least have a backup. If everything fails or the power goes out, start clapping to the sound comes back on. Or try beatboxing. I'm not kidding. (e-trinity once performed this successfully to a screaming crowd when his laptop crashed minutes before the end of his set at a big party in Sweden).
15) Bring backup disks (or cdr's, flash memory cards, hard drives) for everything... this sounds ridiculous, but redundancy is the key here. Consider what you would do in a situation where your synth loses all it's patches or if your hard drive crashes. If you have a laptop, could you make a bootable cdr? Also, if you have a laptop, you could keep sysex dumps handy for external gear. The same goes for sampler data. External scsi cdrom drives are cheap. For about $50 or less, you can buy a cdrom drive and do a dump of your sampler's hard drive to a cdr. Not to mention, external Firewire/USB2 hard-drive enclosures are ridiculously cheap and don't weight that much.
16) Hard drives can be susceptible to low frequency vibrations which can cause misreads, or even head crashes (this is Bad ThingTM). So please be careful when you’re choosing a space to place your laptop. Consider placing it on foam, or even a t-shirt and at all costs avoid putting your computer on a bassbin!
17) Have some kind of backup plan in case your gear crashes, even if it’s something cheap and simple like a minidisk. This will give you some breathing time if you have to suddenly reload anything. If you're using a laptop, consider having it automatically boot into your music software and automatically play a track (in case of a reboot) - remember to scandisk and defrag your machine regularly.
18) During your set, take a moment to occasionally look at the audience and see how they're reacting to what you're doing. If people start to leave the dancefloor, then perhaps you should try something different ;)
19) Practice! I know it's obvious, but it will help you overcome unpleasant situations where things fuck up. If you think you know your gear well, you may find out differently when it's dark and in a completely different environment. doh!
20) Be prepared to politely shoe people away if they ask you to play their favorite song, or "what all those buttons do", or make out with you during your set (heheh). And for God’s sake, don’t let anyone put their drinks next to your gear, and be extra vigilant when drink-wielding patrons are hovering around you.
21) I strongly recommend to not get fucked up on whatever substance. It's rude and disrespectful to not perform your best - you will not play any better if you're seriously intoxicated. Save the "partying" for after you've finished your set and packed up your equipment and it's in a safe place.
22) Don't be afraid to take chances and improvise whenever you feel comfortable in doing so - a perfectly pre-rehearsed gig can end up being too rigid. You have to be able to create some kind of repore or feedback with your audience, n'est-ce-pas?
23) Record your set and listen to it. You may end up getting some great material, or at the very least be able to figure out where you need improvement.
24) Try to have someone trustworthy watching your gear when you're not around and pack up your gear as soon as possible!!!!! This will significantly reduce your chances of anything bad happening including theft and accidents.
25) “never never never never never never never never never act bashful during your set. It's not cute and it's embarrassing for everyone.” (credit djugel at EM411.com)
26) If you make a mistake, don’t make a big deal out of it. Just keep on playing. Most of the time it will only be you who notices or remembers it.
27) If you're not afraid to crack open your equipment, don't forget to bring a screwdriver in case you need to open up your gear right before or during your set in order to carry out some crazy emergency repairs.
28) If you're traveling with your gear, make sure to pack it very well. A lot of smaller equipment fits nicely in those cheap hardware-store metal toolkit cases. Nice pieces of thick foam don't cost too much and just a few minutes with a knife and scissors will allow you to customize the shape to fit your equipment nicely. Please remember that baggage handlers and roadies can be cruel bastards *lol*
29) Believe it or not, you *can* make a living doing live performance. It certainly takes determination, experience, perseverance and a little obsession. Many musicians from all walks of life have come to realize that there is typically more money to be made from performing as opposed to releasing recordings. As such, don't underestimate your value as an entertainer - there should come a time when you will want to charge for your efforts. Although the amount of time and effort put into a live set is usually never offset by the income from performing, don't doubt for a second that what you're doing is worth being paid for.
30) Oh yeah, the most important thing is to have fun!
NB: as you get more experience, you eventually get less and less nervous before performing - but there should always be some excitement and sense of anticipation. Otherwise why bother?
Credit go's to..
http://www.sneakthief.com
Live PA Checklist
(this list has been compiled thanks to helpful suggestions from those on the livepa.org, EM411.com, and the now-defunct Moving-Parts & Topica livePA mailing lists)
1) Ask beforehand about the setup if possible and don't forget to make your needs very clear. I highly recommend printing out a simple rider that spells out exactly what you require - some promoters might forget that you need power connectors, table space, an audio input into the sound system, etc. (Note: to prevent power issues and line noise, avoid going on the same electrical circuit as the discolights/fogmachine/etc.)
2) Make an equipment checklist and use it before every show. It's so easy to forget one little thing that will prevent you from playing. Having your own power bar is essential if you need more than one outlet and always bring duct tape).
3) Don't be afraid of writing down a listing of all the tracks you have - that way, if you're doing any kind of spontaneous transitions, you can quickly choose what you might want to play next. (and NO, I don't necessarily mean a pre-planned set list). Also consider making notes for patch numbers and changes, volume levels, or anything else that’s essential to your live workflow.
4) Know ALL your cable connections inside and out. Check your cables beforehand and make sure they're all working... even midi cables go bad, and when they do it can be very frustrating because you might not think to check the cable when midi data isn't being transmitted properly.
5) Mark your cables with coloured tape or label-tiewraps (so you know what goes where). Don’t forget the duct tape!
6) Bring a flashlight - lighting conditions can vary and chances are you will need one.
7) Bring many different types of *extra* connectors because you never know what kind of audio inputs/cables the venue will have. If you’re using a laptop, you might want to also bring a power connector that removes the ground (aka a ground lift) - this can help get rid of grounding problems (50/60Hz hum).
8) Consider putting a compressor/limiter on your final mix - it comes in handy for sounds that get a little out of control. Remember, records have gone through a whole mastering process and will generally deliver a consistent volume range, whereas live sound can have some pretty crazy dynamics (but try not to squash your mix if you limit/compress it).
9) A monitor is necessary, or at least headphones. You will find that listening to both will help give you a better idea of what's being heard on the dancefloor. Nevertheless, what you hear from the monitor speakers is NOT what the people hear on the dancefloor.
10) Soundcheck! If you are fortunate enough to have the opportunity to setup your equipment before the event starts, take some time to LISTEN TO YOUR SET ON THE DANCEFLOOR! This is essential, even if you don't get a soundcheck, run out onto the dancefloor when you first start playing so you can get an idea of how everything sounds.
11) If the room sounds bad, a 10, 20 or 30 band eq will allow you to compensate for it. every room has a resonant frequency that may detract from your sound - Not to mention, all sound systems are eq'd differently.
12) Be friendly to whoever is doing sound because they can make or break your set through carelessness or malice. A good sound engineer will let you know if you’re running a signal that’s too high or too low, and will also be on duty to make sure that the sound system levels are staying consistent. A lazy or unfriendly sound engineer won’t give a damn if your set sounds like crap because your output is clipping and the limiters are squashing your set. If people are running away from the dancefloor, then you better check and see if you’re killing them with unfriendly mid-high frequencies, clipping or distortion.
13) If there isn’t a sound engineer, you can try to find someone who’s sober enough to let you know if any of your levels are going astray or if there are problems with the sound system.
14) Consider using at least 2 sequencers/laptops (or at least an extra drum machine). If one of them crashes, you'll at least have a backup. If everything fails or the power goes out, start clapping to the sound comes back on. Or try beatboxing. I'm not kidding. (e-trinity once performed this successfully to a screaming crowd when his laptop crashed minutes before the end of his set at a big party in Sweden).
15) Bring backup disks (or cdr's, flash memory cards, hard drives) for everything... this sounds ridiculous, but redundancy is the key here. Consider what you would do in a situation where your synth loses all it's patches or if your hard drive crashes. If you have a laptop, could you make a bootable cdr? Also, if you have a laptop, you could keep sysex dumps handy for external gear. The same goes for sampler data. External scsi cdrom drives are cheap. For about $50 or less, you can buy a cdrom drive and do a dump of your sampler's hard drive to a cdr. Not to mention, external Firewire/USB2 hard-drive enclosures are ridiculously cheap and don't weight that much.
16) Hard drives can be susceptible to low frequency vibrations which can cause misreads, or even head crashes (this is Bad ThingTM). So please be careful when you’re choosing a space to place your laptop. Consider placing it on foam, or even a t-shirt and at all costs avoid putting your computer on a bassbin!
17) Have some kind of backup plan in case your gear crashes, even if it’s something cheap and simple like a minidisk. This will give you some breathing time if you have to suddenly reload anything. If you're using a laptop, consider having it automatically boot into your music software and automatically play a track (in case of a reboot) - remember to scandisk and defrag your machine regularly.
18) During your set, take a moment to occasionally look at the audience and see how they're reacting to what you're doing. If people start to leave the dancefloor, then perhaps you should try something different ;)
19) Practice! I know it's obvious, but it will help you overcome unpleasant situations where things fuck up. If you think you know your gear well, you may find out differently when it's dark and in a completely different environment. doh!
20) Be prepared to politely shoe people away if they ask you to play their favorite song, or "what all those buttons do", or make out with you during your set (heheh). And for God’s sake, don’t let anyone put their drinks next to your gear, and be extra vigilant when drink-wielding patrons are hovering around you.
21) I strongly recommend to not get fucked up on whatever substance. It's rude and disrespectful to not perform your best - you will not play any better if you're seriously intoxicated. Save the "partying" for after you've finished your set and packed up your equipment and it's in a safe place.
22) Don't be afraid to take chances and improvise whenever you feel comfortable in doing so - a perfectly pre-rehearsed gig can end up being too rigid. You have to be able to create some kind of repore or feedback with your audience, n'est-ce-pas?
23) Record your set and listen to it. You may end up getting some great material, or at the very least be able to figure out where you need improvement.
24) Try to have someone trustworthy watching your gear when you're not around and pack up your gear as soon as possible!!!!! This will significantly reduce your chances of anything bad happening including theft and accidents.
25) “never never never never never never never never never act bashful during your set. It's not cute and it's embarrassing for everyone.” (credit djugel at EM411.com)
26) If you make a mistake, don’t make a big deal out of it. Just keep on playing. Most of the time it will only be you who notices or remembers it.
27) If you're not afraid to crack open your equipment, don't forget to bring a screwdriver in case you need to open up your gear right before or during your set in order to carry out some crazy emergency repairs.
28) If you're traveling with your gear, make sure to pack it very well. A lot of smaller equipment fits nicely in those cheap hardware-store metal toolkit cases. Nice pieces of thick foam don't cost too much and just a few minutes with a knife and scissors will allow you to customize the shape to fit your equipment nicely. Please remember that baggage handlers and roadies can be cruel bastards *lol*
29) Believe it or not, you *can* make a living doing live performance. It certainly takes determination, experience, perseverance and a little obsession. Many musicians from all walks of life have come to realize that there is typically more money to be made from performing as opposed to releasing recordings. As such, don't underestimate your value as an entertainer - there should come a time when you will want to charge for your efforts. Although the amount of time and effort put into a live set is usually never offset by the income from performing, don't doubt for a second that what you're doing is worth being paid for.
30) Oh yeah, the most important thing is to have fun!
NB: as you get more experience, you eventually get less and less nervous before performing - but there should always be some excitement and sense of anticipation. Otherwise why bother?
MD SPS-1 DARKENERGY JX-3P (PG200) Mbase01
http://soundcloud.com/cosmosuave
http://www.cosmosuave.com/
http://soundcloud.com/cosmosuave
http://www.cosmosuave.com/
Great post, but this domain looks like it's being camped by domain squatters. Is there a typo in your url perhaps?cosmosuave wrote:Here is some advice I have found useful....
Credit go's to..
http://www.sneakthief.com
-
tomperson
- Posts: 1018
- Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:55 am
- Location: MVD, Uruguay, South America
- Contact:
Thanks as always!!!
Hey thanks for the great replies, excellent post CosmoSuave!!! I'll make sure to print it out (three copies, one for me to carry, one for the fridge and maybe one for the bathroom 
). Many of those apparently "simple" details can make or break a set.
And about the DJ set, any tips regarding the track order (how to organize it)? I mean, start with slow songs, go slowly faster, etc?
Any good books or links?
(And yup, the link doesn't work)
). Many of those apparently "simple" details can make or break a set.And about the DJ set, any tips regarding the track order (how to organize it)? I mean, start with slow songs, go slowly faster, etc?
Any good books or links?
(And yup, the link doesn't work)
Turn up the radio. Turn up the tape machine. Look into the sunset up ahead. Roll the windows down for a better taste of the cool desert wind. Ah yes. This is what it's all about. Total control now.
-
cosmosuave
- Posts: 1774
- Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:36 am
- Location: Toronto
- Contact:
Re: Thanks as always!!!
Here is the correct link....Damn hyphen...tomperson wrote:
(And yup, the link doesn't work)
http://www.sneak-thief.com
MD SPS-1 DARKENERGY JX-3P (PG200) Mbase01
http://soundcloud.com/cosmosuave
http://www.cosmosuave.com/
http://soundcloud.com/cosmosuave
http://www.cosmosuave.com/
-
tomperson
- Posts: 1018
- Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:55 am
- Location: MVD, Uruguay, South America
- Contact:
Sneak Thief
And about those sneak thief guys...what's up with them?
Turn up the radio. Turn up the tape machine. Look into the sunset up ahead. Roll the windows down for a better taste of the cool desert wind. Ah yes. This is what it's all about. Total control now.
Re: Thanks as always!!!
Ah, thanks. Great advice, btw. =)cosmosuave wrote:Here is the correct link....Damn hyphen...tomperson wrote:
(And yup, the link doesn't work)
http://www.sneak-thief.com