Export audio problem

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Martin44
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Export audio problem

Post by Martin44 » Thu May 20, 2010 6:56 pm

Hi,

I'm having this strange problem while exporting audio from Live 8.0.4. In the arrangement view things sound fine, but when I export the song to a .wav file it sounds as if someone has his finger on the volume dial: it sounds unstable, like an irregular wave.
I've had this on two different systems, one with an AMD dual core (32 bits), now with an Intel quad core (64 bits). On the dual core it would help if I didn't do anything on the computer prior to using Live, so the system temperature would be low. The problem worsens if the song is resource intensive, even though my Intel i7-860 never gets above 15% CPU usage in Live.
Also, now I'm using EastWest Qunatum Leap it sounds fine while in the arrangement view, but very strange when exported to .wav. That can sorted by converting the MIDI tracks into audio tracks, but still it's odd that this is necessary.

I already have Live 8.1.3 on my computer, but I have to finish my current project on 8.0.4, because of the different file systems between versions.

------
Dell XPS 8100
i7-860
8GB RAM
Win7 64 bits
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Any clues as to what's going on here?

thanks/regards
Marten
Free MP3 music download:
http://rocking.mobi

Tone Deft
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Location: SF, CA

Re: Export audio problem

Post by Tone Deft » Thu May 20, 2010 8:23 pm

what settings did you use when you exported?

can you post a short snippet of the weird sounding export?
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

McQ714
Posts: 1851
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Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Export audio problem

Post by McQ714 » Thu May 20, 2010 9:26 pm

Martin44 wrote:...I already have Live 8.1.3 on my computer, but I have to finish my current project on 8.0.4, because of the different file systems between versions.

Any clues as to what's going on here?

thanks/regards
Marten
how about you get a legit copy of Live???

your reason for not using 8.1.3 doesn't even make sense. you can open old projects in 8.1.3 but not vice versa.

i call bullshit! where's Dom? does this guy have a legit license???

and which is it, Martin or Marten???

ShelLuser
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Re: Export audio problem

Post by ShelLuser » Fri May 21, 2010 1:59 am

McQ714 wrote:how about you get a legit copy of Live???

your reason for not using 8.1.3 doesn't even make sense. you can open old projects in 8.1.3 but not vice versa.
I think someone is jumping to conclusions WAY too fast here.

It wouldn't be the first time if some people are working together on a project and not everyone is eager to upgrade to the latest released version. And if someone of the group decides to give it a testrun... Bingo, you might end up with the OP's situation.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

Martin44
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Re: Export audio problem

Post by Martin44 » Fri May 21, 2010 4:44 pm

McQ714 wrote:
Martin44 wrote:...I already have Live 8.1.3 on my computer, but I have to finish my current project on 8.0.4, because of the different file systems between versions.

Any clues as to what's going on here?

thanks/regards
Marten
how about you get a legit copy of Live???

your reason for not using 8.1.3 doesn't even make sense. you can open old projects in 8.1.3 but not vice versa.

i call bullshit! where's Dom? does this guy have a legit license???

and which is it, Martin or Marten???
Jeepers...first the Teutels and now him. Orange County isn't what it used to be.... :P
You're right in that I can open 8.0.4 projects in 8.1.3, as I've found out.
and which is it, Martin or Marten???
It's Maarten. Are you happy?
I think someone is jumping to conclusions WAY too fast here.
Greetings to Wageningen.

I've done some further experimenting, now in 8.1.3, which has led me to believe that the issue is not so much a bug, but rather what you can expect from a DAW. The manual says:
If you are monitoring the Master output, you can be sure that the rendered file will contain exactly what you hear.
How literally should this be taken? In my experience the rendered .wav file (32 bit depth, 192kHz sample rate) sounds decidedly different. The unstable sound quality, which I referred to, pertains to individual tracks, rather than the overall volume, an effect which can be diminished by using the compressor.
And then there is the issue that some EastWest Quantum Leap instruments sound "flanged" in the .wav and the MIDI notes of some EWQL instuments are "cut short": four 1/16 notes will only sound for one 1/16 note, for instance. On my AMD dual core that would happen also in the arrangement view, but I put that down to insufficient processing power. Now on my powerful i7-860 everything works without a hitch, except in the .wav.

So, are we talking about normal DAW behaviour here? Should a song behave in the same way as an exported .wav, as it does at the Master output?
Or should you be satisfied that getting a .wav from a DAW is like an analog recording, in that the recording is a different universe than the live performance?
Free MP3 music download:
http://rocking.mobi

McQ714
Posts: 1851
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:12 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Export audio problem

Post by McQ714 » Fri May 21, 2010 5:04 pm

Martin44 wrote:Jeepers...first the Teutels and now him. Orange County isn't what it used to be.... :P
Two different Orange Counties man..
Orange County choppers is in New York.. I'm in California. We actually have orange groves here!

Martin44
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Re: Export audio problem

Post by Martin44 » Sat May 22, 2010 4:29 pm

Back to the issue at hand...I've done some thinking (uncharacteristically) and I've come to the following conclusion:

The problem (and I do think it is a problem) is that Live wants to keep the overall volume at a fixed level, while exporting to .wav.
So, if you start with a track A and then track B chimes in, then Live will reduce the volume of track A, to keep the overall volume fixed. This doesn't happen at the monitor output, hence the difference.
If track B is strongly dynamic, then the volume of track A will vary according to the rhythm of track B, which results in the prementioned "unstable" sound quality.
So Live messes with the balance in volume between tracks, frustrating the musical intentions of the Live user. This is such a critical issue, imho, that it seems strange that it exists at all. Am I missing something here?
Free MP3 music download:
http://rocking.mobi

Lauri_
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:35 am

Re: Export audio problem

Post by Lauri_ » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:38 am

i'm having the same problem in Ableton Live 9 Suite. did this issue find a solution or not?

bosonHavoc
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Re: Export audio problem

Post by bosonHavoc » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:13 am

sounds very odd and I've never had any issues like this personally.
here are few ideas to check and try.

Is Normalize on or off?
if it is on turn it off.

make sure to render at the same bit depth that you have set in preferences.
do apply dither unless you are down sampling
and only dither a track one time, which would be during the mastering phase.


you can also try sticking an external instrument or external effect device into the track
and force Ableton to render in real time to see if that changes anything.

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