what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

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rikhyray
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by rikhyray » Mon May 24, 2010 1:49 pm

It is absolutely the worst situation for audio since few years, mac or PC none of the current releases are great for us. there seems, nothing better then wait. Even those few specialised audio computer companies have problems finding suitable hardware at the moment.
BTW. regarding video, DV is on way out,so is FW transfer, cards are the present and , perhaps future. I am thinking about selling my DV camera when it is still worth something and get HD camera. Even though I use widescreen PAL, shooting in HD gives great options for editing.

LoopStationZebra
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Mon May 24, 2010 3:29 pm

rikhyray wrote: regarding video, DV is on way out,so is FW transfer, cards are the present and , perhaps future. I am thinking about selling my DV camera when it is still worth something and get HD camera. Even though I use widescreen PAL, shooting in HD gives great options for editing.

There's still an enormous amount of footage being shot on tape. Much more so that one would think. The HD cams are excellent. Card memory to handle an hour+ worth of HD footage is a ways off though. :wink:
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

mikemc
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by mikemc » Mon May 24, 2010 5:44 pm

Yeh, the lack of FW for audio is bad, but the lack of transfer for video is bad bad.

Did a bit more poking around-- there are a couple of USB 3.0 storage devices, looks like, but that is about it, and there is also the matter of things that will handle that sort of data firehose.

USB 3.0 actually seems like it will be very good for audio, there are separate send and receive channels. But it looks like the time to availability of USB 3.0 audio interfaces is more likely to be measured in years than months.

There are expresscard to IEEE 1394 adaptors, with 6 pin slots, but I don't think these will actually power a FW device.

SubFunk
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by SubFunk » Mon May 24, 2010 6:07 pm

Yeh, the lack of FW for audio is bad, but the lack of transfer for video is bad bad.
it's real bad, bad, bad with computers these days, also the slowly disappearing PMCIA and express slots...

the sony XDCAM which is pretty much a standard in digital for small / middle sized productions next to the RED, has cards that go directly into the express slot respectively they have adapters for the larger PMCIA ones... that is bliss and you get really reasonable transfer rates, the 'box' that sony makes in case you ain't have a slot is translating into USB 2.0, a total and utter nightmare and unusable under professional circumstances... when you need to transfer files on a set you are basically fooked for 30 - 50 minutes, unbelievable.

it seems that computers are more and more just for household/web, office or gaming nonsense.
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filterstein
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by filterstein » Mon May 24, 2010 8:38 pm

it's a pain, f**king windows shit is just 100% out of the question, and apples HW starts to suck.
Not trying to troll, but you should really try a decent pc\laptop with w7.
I think you'll be surprised by how stable it is.
Mac's are now plain intel hardware and from a usability point of view differences between osx\w7 are minor.
If the software you use is not mac only, it's become nothing more than a matter of taste.
(I have nothing against macs, except for the ridiculous price tag.)

Tone Deft
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by Tone Deft » Mon May 24, 2010 8:39 pm

that's actually a pretty positive review by sub funk's standards.
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Machinesworking
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by Machinesworking » Mon May 24, 2010 8:40 pm

On a few things expressed here. The Agre firewire chipset is a partial issue at best. The problem is the sound card might not be recognized. Two ways around this, use the FW800 slot with a converter cable ($20 maybe), or get an Express card slot with a Ti chipset. The RME forums are a good resource for info on this problem that affects both Mac and PC.

I've used the Express card slot on an older macbook pro for hard drives for a while now, and honestly I would NEVER use that slot in a live situation. it's a spring loaded connection. it pops out if bumped, and even playing with a drummer in the studio with high volumes going through a PA it's not what I would consider stable enough for live use. Maybe the PC laptops have a more solid Express card slot, but I kinda doubt it, PCMCIA was more secure IMO.

USB 3.0 will skunk firewire. USB 2.0 is rated at 480mbs which still could not match firewire 400mbs. That said FW800 will not be faster than USB 3000 effectively.
RME's USB fireface is supposedly USB 3 compliant. There is definite truth in saying that firewire is a better concept for things like audio than USB, but it's looking to be in the future one of those Betamax VS VHS or Power PC VS x86, in theory the better choice, but in practice, more money will probably be pumped into USB 3 than whatever might possibly happen with Firewire's next advancement, if it comes.

At this point though, I would never want to rely on USB 2 for audio, Firewire has been dead stable and with low enough latency for me. Also IMO USB suffers from the Express card problem, the connection isn't stable enough, especially on older devices, it wobbles about much more than Firewire plugs.

SubFunk
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by SubFunk » Mon May 24, 2010 8:46 pm

filterstein wrote:
it's a pain, f**king windows shit is just 100% out of the question, and apples HW starts to suck.
Not trying to troll, but you should really try a decent pc\laptop with w7.
I think you'll be surprised by how stable it is.
Mac's are now plain intel hardware and from a usability point of view differences between osx\w7 are minor.
If the software you use is not mac only, it's become nothing more than a matter of taste.
(I have nothing against macs, except for the ridiculous price tag.)
it's not only a stability issue, the whole system / file structure... horror
design (and yes it is important to me, staring 4-10 hours a day at a screen, do you like to look at ugly woman all day? me not!)... horror
no core audio driver... horror
no core midi... horror
need of every single f**king driver for every little generic shit there is... horror
no logic audio... horror

sorry, microschrott for audio... NO, NO, NO, NO!!!
from a usability point of view differences between osx\w7 are minor.
LOL, they are more then just major in my book.

already just the fact of not having core audio is a 100% none discussable drawback, i am not willing to tolerate at all.

i was forced to use PCs for audio in my last employment in a large audio company here in berlin... it was pure and utter horror, when ever i was able to i used my mac and had peace and freedom concentrating on my actual work and not the f**king computer and solve shit.

but i really do like the built quality and features of lenovo hardware!
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SubFunk
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by SubFunk » Mon May 24, 2010 8:53 pm

Tone Deft wrote:that's actually a pretty positive review by sub funk's standards.
:lol:
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filterstein
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by filterstein » Mon May 24, 2010 9:07 pm

ah. you sound like a believer.
not sure everything you state is factual, but i see resistance is futile :wink:

SubFunk
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by SubFunk » Mon May 24, 2010 9:08 pm

filterstein wrote:not sure everything you state is factual
it's all real experience, therefor a fact for me!
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mikemc
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by mikemc » Mon May 24, 2010 9:09 pm

SubFunk wrote:no core audio driver... horror
This is a legit gripe. I think Bill Gates even mentioned regretting not doing a better job with building in ASIO. Some of the other things are maybe a matter of taste: separately upgraded drivers for things seem better, and I don't know how much I'd want Microsoft defining too much of how music-related software should be.

say what you will SubFunk at least [edit] eloquently expresses his reasons for not liking Windows, :D although not all of us equate looking at computers with looking at women :D .

SubFunk
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by SubFunk » Mon May 24, 2010 9:15 pm

mikemc wrote:although not all of us equate looking at computers with looking at women :D .
this is really, really important to me, i am way to much a visual person as much as i am an audiophile person...

(mind you i did photography before i went pro audio and i am big time into movies and design / architecture, too)

i can't stand any ugly things (what i consider to be ugly! of course) or even tolerate them for long in the slightest.

it would give me surely cancer or another psycho disease at some point, no joke.
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filterstein
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by filterstein » Mon May 24, 2010 9:32 pm

i wouldn't say windows is pretty.
i was in love with macos 7 but the ugly osxdock and brushed metal are not my taste.
you should focus on your maschine though!

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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by Hidden Driveways » Mon May 24, 2010 9:56 pm

what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?
...this is why I just spent massive amounts of my savings on a i5 MacBook Pro and a Fireface UC interface. I use the FW 800 port for the external drive, and one of the USB 2.0 ports is for the Fireface UC. I'll capture video from my mini-DV camera onto the 7200 internal drive first, then move the files over to the external when it's time to edit. This way I'll be using the external drive on the FW800 port, and the UC for sound playback when doing video work.

It sucks that it cost as much money as it did (and believe me... my girlfriend was pissed), but I honestly feel like I've got a solid kit for the next five years that's fully backpack friendly.

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