what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
H20nly
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by H20nly » Mon May 24, 2010 10:26 pm

I have a Lenovo T500. When I ordered it I didn't see FW in the specs. I ordered a SIIG (6 pin) FW card... When the laptop arrived, I was actually surprised, it did come with FW - 4 pin but FW none the less. Not too good for the audio bit, but works for video.

The thing is built like a tank (like Sub Funk says) but as a company they seem to be unorganized when it comes to the "paper" trail. I got what I wanted, its great no issues with the device (which is what counts), but they were calling and emailing me all kinds of misleading shit. I think they outsource and they may want to reconsider. Anyway, my point about that is this: maybe other companies do the same, leave it out of the specs???

*shrugs* its a thought.
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

djsynchro
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by djsynchro » Mon May 24, 2010 10:35 pm

it just works

H20nly
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by H20nly » Mon May 24, 2010 10:42 pm

djsynchro wrote:it just works

I can't remember seeing you post anything other than above quote for a while now...

You sure it works?

Maybe it stopped working and you haven't noticed??
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

Tone Deft
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by Tone Deft » Mon May 24, 2010 11:31 pm

H20nly wrote:
djsynchro wrote:it just works

I can't remember seeing you post anything other than above quote for a while now...

You sure it works?

Maybe it stopped working and you haven't noticed??
reminds me of this guy...

Image

the Sherminator from American Pie.
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LoopStationZebra
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue May 25, 2010 12:31 am

Machinesworking wrote: USB 3.0 will skunk firewire. USB 2.0 is rated at 480mbs which still could not match firewire 400mbs.

heh. Real world data flow is expected to be around 3GPS+ (rated at 5) 8O
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But stayed for the :x

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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by mikemc » Tue May 25, 2010 2:18 am

H20nly wrote: Anyway, my point about that is this: maybe other companies do the same, leave it out of the specs???

*shrugs* its a thought.
It may be sometimes. But I've gone to a couple of stores and looked at recent models of notebooks, tho', and there is even a little "etching" in the side of the case where a hole for the 4-pin FW might be punched out, but not available. Also, FW was mentioned in the specs in the online stores for previous models of the models I've been looking at but not on the current.

[edit] seems kind of a fail, it wasn't like FW was that expensive an option to throw in.

H20nly
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by H20nly » Tue May 25, 2010 2:27 am

^ then I think its safe to say they're probably cutting corners. Not enough of us that want it, so the trick is to make us conform so they can save 60 cents - 6 bucks a unit or whatever the measly little bottom line on that Excel spreadsheet says... funny how multiplying by a couple of hundred thousand can make even a turd seem like a good business model. Fucked up part is, they'll probably have lay offs at the factory as a result.
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

dum
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by dum » Tue May 25, 2010 2:28 am

A whiney faggot wrote:^ then I think its safe to say they're probably cutting corners. Not enough of us that want it, so the trick is to make us conform so they can save 60 cents - 6 bucks a unit or whatever the measly little bottom line on that Excel spreadsheet says... funny how multiplying by a couple of hundred thousand can make even a turd seem like a good business model. Fucked up part is, they'll probably have lay offs at the factory as a result.
:lol:
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

H20nly
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by H20nly » Tue May 25, 2010 2:32 am

the dum fuck that the just got his back jizzed on wrote: :lol:
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

H20nly
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by H20nly » Tue May 25, 2010 2:43 am

in case anybody's wondering... the dum is upset cuz I called it out for being a douche:

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=143144

apparently it doesn't like this.

poor thing, pouting... :(

its gonna be okay little guy.


*pats tiny little inadequate person on head*
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

Machinesworking
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by Machinesworking » Tue May 25, 2010 6:06 am

LoopStationZebra wrote:
Machinesworking wrote: USB 3.0 will skunk firewire. USB 2.0 is rated at 480mbs which still could not match firewire 400mbs.

heh. Real world data flow is expected to be around 3GPS+ (rated at 5) 8O
Yeah that's the thing, at todays bus speeds, USB 3.0 looks to match Express cards, plus add some juice! 8O
I recall Firewire being basically crippled by Yamaha asking for too much for the license compared to USB 2, it's why you see 4 pin on most
PC laptops and adaptation at a lower rate. Really too bad, as Firewire offers more watts at the port, and I bet could easily match USB 3 speeds if developed.

Anyway, I'm not buying another laptop until USB 3 is sorted and bugs worked out, then maybe. Firewire is pretty bad ass, people forget that screaming Chicken Little ove what amounts to a solvable Agre chip issue.

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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by SubFunk » Tue May 25, 2010 9:58 am

filterstein wrote:i wouldn't say windows is pretty.
i was in love with macos 7 but the ugly osxdock and brushed metal are not my taste.
you should focus on your maschine though!
filterstein this has been discussed and argued over to death, i have worked nearly my whole live with audio and music and used both systems, to know exactly why i have a deep hate and zero tolerance for windows based audio systems.

i am aware of the fact that windows has progressed a lot and got much better then it used to be, but the core is rotten for audio work.

you can all use what you want, as long as windows is not changing the whole OS in a very radical way from A-Z it will be always mediocre compared to OSX for audio, in my book. it takes to much effort and time to create a stable and well running windows setup.

i don't say it's not possible... but for time and energy efforts not worth it, in my book.
and i am not an apple fanboy, i am majorly pissed of with them doing shit / none professional (in my eyes) hardware right now...
but OSX for audio just rules, definitely still rules.

and we can argue and argue and argue... me windows: NO!

daveperman calls me blind because of that, well he doesn't earn his money with audio / sound work using computers for it on a daily basis in all sort of circumstances / systems (workbench, SM2, etc.), he is an IT person!!! LOL


cheers.
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davepermen
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by davepermen » Tue May 25, 2010 11:15 am

to subfunk, usb3 actually allows data-streams simultanously, so no, firefirew has nothing over usb3 at all, and will sure die out over time due to it.

latency, too, is not much of an issue, as you can get very low latencies even on usb2 audio cards (like the audio 8 dj), so the differences to firewire cards are minimal. not to say usb2 is good enough for audio, so usb3 will sure be more than good enough.

the only place firewire still gets used here is for the video camera, but they are sure adopting to usb2/usb3, too.

oh, and it creates ZERO time to create a stable and high quality audio setup in windows, you blind apple fool :) install os (or have it preinstalled), install live, install your sound devices as needed. DONE.

your only gain, as i said before, is the around 1ms lower default latency.

(doesn't mean you need to change to windows, obviously, as osx works perfectly well. but calling it at any place better is moronic and idiotic)
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SubFunk
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by SubFunk » Tue May 25, 2010 11:53 am

davepermen wrote:oh, and it creates ZERO time to create a stable and high quality audio setup in windows, you blind apple fool install os (or have it preinstalled), install live, install your sound devices as needed. DONE.
i seriously call you a LIAR!

in a bit over 20 years that never happened once for real around me, and of course i only know people who have zero clue about computers and windows systems working with audio for a living :wink:

jeez not even my friends working in IT support for HP and Dell claim that! (and they have zero to do with audio computer systems, they only work for business systems)

and they all have and use privately macs, because of OSX, btw :lol:

what you claim is the same sort of lie, like saying OSX NEVER crashes :lol: :lol: :lol:
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RonaldDumsfeld
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by RonaldDumsfeld » Tue May 25, 2010 12:35 pm

The USB is inherently crap and always worse than Firewire is now a myth.

USB 1.1 was admittedly limited but even USB 2.0 is more than acceptable. Look up the figures for the RME Fireface UL vs the Frewire only equilvalent. USB actually gives better latency. Firewire is a development of the old SCSI standard but is now owned by Apple. So all the R&D is now USB based (i.e. USB 3.00.

I own a MOTU Ultralite Hybrid which offers both Frewire and USB 2.0. I honestly cannot find any differences in operation although I generally use the Firewire port because i can easily guarantee exclusive channel access but it's never been a problem ither way - at least since MOTU fixed their USB drivers.

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