what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

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Hidden Driveways
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by Hidden Driveways » Tue May 25, 2010 1:10 pm

RonaldDumsfeld wrote:The USB is inherently crap and always worse than Firewire is now a myth.

USB 1.1 was admittedly limited but even USB 2.0 is more than acceptable. Look up the figures for the RME Fireface UL vs the Frewire only equilvalent. USB actually gives better latency. Firewire is a development of the old SCSI standard but is now owned by Apple. So all the R&D is now USB based (i.e. USB 3.00.

I own a MOTU Ultralite Hybrid which offers both Frewire and USB 2.0. I honestly cannot find any differences in operation although I generally use the Firewire port because i can easily guarantee exclusive channel access but it's never been a problem ither way - at least since MOTU fixed their USB drivers.
The Fireface UC outperforms FireWire 400 interfaces because it has a unique "dual transfer core," which basically means that the interface detects whether it's connected to a Mac or a PC at boot-up, and loads a custom firmware to take full advantage of the specific connected OS. This is also why the specs of the Fireface UC running on Mac laptops completely destroys the specs of the Fireface UC connected to Windows laptops.

Many Mac laptops can achieve 32 buffers, while only a couple of the best and the brightest PC laptops can achieve 64:

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_fir ... _pclaptops

Seriously, if you guys want to have a meaningful discussion about USB 3.0 and audio, log back into the forum in 2012. Until then it's just a waste of time and thought.

And oh yeah... FireWire ports have always been scarce on PC computers. Always.

mikemc
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by mikemc » Tue May 25, 2010 1:41 pm

Hidden Driveways wrote: And oh yeah... FireWire ports have always been scarce on PC computers. Always.
and oh yeah... :wink: this is true, but they are now disappearing from models that used to have them. This is my observation, moreover it is happening without any real techno-press-blog-etc comment thereabout.

And agree 100%, while the advent of USB 3.0 does sound a death knell of slower similar things like Firewire whatever-hundred, it is a knell in the distance.

2012 sounds about right for the "which USB 3.0 interface is best" threads to appear in earnest.

Hidden Driveways
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by Hidden Driveways » Tue May 25, 2010 1:49 pm

mikemc wrote:
Hidden Driveways wrote: And oh yeah... FireWire ports have always been scarce on PC computers. Always.
and oh yeah... :wink: this is true, but they are now disappearing from models that used to have them. This is my observation, moreover it is happening without any real techno-press-blog-etc comment thereabout.
Okay. Right on..

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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by mikemc » Tue May 25, 2010 3:30 pm


LoopStationZebra
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue May 25, 2010 4:19 pm

Hidden Driveways wrote: And oh yeah... FireWire ports have always been scarce on PC computers that the average house frau uses. Always.
fix de la fix. :P

For any relatively pro machine they've always been pretty much de rigueur. ie. Dell's and HPs pro business lines.
I came for the :lol:
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filterstein
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by filterstein » Tue May 25, 2010 7:52 pm

all right then, I confess.
I'm an it guy too.

McQ714
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by McQ714 » Tue May 25, 2010 8:52 pm

i've always been a supporter for HP laptops. they work pretty damn well and the one time mine failed, i sent it in and had it back in a week.

but i just sent an email complaint to HP regarding the lack of both a firewire port and an express card slot in their otherwise beautiful new lineup of laptops. seriously, they are gorgeous!!! every bit as beautiful as the MBP. what really bothers me is that some of them include "Beats Audio" laptop speakers, which was a collaboration with Monster or Dr. Dre i guess and was supposed to be geared towards the creative bunch and audio pros to an extent. i understand that there are some good USB interfaces like the RME UC, Xone 4D, Audio 8 DJ and NI's others interfaces, but we also have a bunch of other USB shit to run of this same computer and i've got a RME multiface 2 with express card that would be useless on these new laptops.

by the way.. the "HP" logo lights up on the back of these!!! i really want one! i guess i'll have to get another interface now. WEAK!!!

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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by leedsquietman » Tue May 25, 2010 11:04 pm

Most mid to higher priced PC laptops still include and always have included firewire, albeit in the form of 4 pin mini FW and in the last 2 years with crummy el cheapo integrated firewire chipsets. It's only the budget end where they have been excluding them. Dell's XPS and Alienware computers all still have firewire in the new range.

USB3 is still not necessarily going to be the new standard, it was supposed to have already been fully tested in 2009 and implemented in Q1 2010, but there is no sign of it appearing imminently. Alternative formats including light channel and even firewire S1600 and S3200 are in the mix, making it a real headache. Many of the partners in USB3, are also partners in the light channel option.

Until these issues are resolved in the way HD-DVD lost out to Blu-Ray but not for about 2 years, it makes for a very problematic time for mobo manufacturers and computer makers.
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mikemc
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by mikemc » Wed May 26, 2010 7:51 pm

McQ714 wrote:i've always been a supporter for HP laptops. they work pretty damn well and the one time mine failed, i sent it in and had it back in a week.

but i just sent an email complaint to HP regarding the lack of both a firewire port and an express card slot in their otherwise beautiful new lineup of laptops.
thanks. This was EXACTLY the reason for my making the observation, the missing ports on the Envy line.

McQ714
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by McQ714 » Wed May 26, 2010 8:47 pm

not only the Envy line now.. HP is upgrading all the chassis to that slick new design and leaving out both firewire and express card slots. i'm truly disappointed!
maybe i'll have to buy a Mac! yeah right!!!

the only one left in their entire lineup that has both is the dv8t quad which is an 18" laptop. it's way too big for our needs. i just don't see why they put 50 fucking display port options on the damn thing and not one firewire port or at least an express card so that we can use a firewire card. WTF!?!? i hope they fix this like Apple did eventually. i'm not going to ditch my multiface 2 any time soon.

and with regards to the Envy line, the new laptop lineup at least has the DVD/Blu-Ray player back in the chassis and not as an external option.

Machinesworking
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by Machinesworking » Wed May 26, 2010 9:08 pm

McQ714 wrote:not only the Envy line now.. HP is upgrading all the chassis to that slick new design and leaving out both firewire and express card slots. i'm truly disappointed!
maybe i'll have to buy a Mac! yeah right!!!
If I was on Windows I would be thinking about who to kill to get a Panasonic Tough Book. Pretty sure they still offer both Express card and Firewire as options? (they do) If you're a performing musician the idea of dropping the laptop is terrifying and worth the price tag IMO.
Besides aesthetic wise, built like a power tool is more my style than the macbook sleek expensive look.
As it is I have velcro feet on the laptop that stick it to the stand. :lol:

[edit] christ they've gotten expensive though... damn?

McQ714
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by McQ714 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:08 pm

turns out there is one HP laptop that still has the express card and firewire ports available. it's the 18" though... seems kind of big for travel.

if you were going to get a new USB interface for DJing, would you get the A8DJ or the Fireface UC?? i know the RME isn't really for DJing (the multiface 2 is awesome because of the 8 analog ins and outs and separate stereo headphone out). i don't like the A8DJ because it's all RCA connections. but the Fireface UC has only 6 analog outs and a stereo out that can be used for a 4th deck for Traktor Pro or as a headphone out if you're not using 4 decks i guess. kinda lame. RME needs to make the RPM again. or at least a USB version of the MF2. not everyone wants or needs mic pres. i would much prefer to use the spdif in for that and have a decent half rack 2 mic pre unit with spdif out.. Hint, hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge RME!!! i will be posting a suggestion on RMEs forum but they never listen. they're German!!!

XOrejiKahuasX
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by XOrejiKahuasX » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:47 am

The Hp Elitebooks still has a mini firewire port ;) military grade YEAH!!

gosinisha
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by gosinisha » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:47 am

usb is okay, but fw you need to connect external fw disk with soundbanks, to release the data flow from usb - in my case cause i use usb soundcard. but usb will never be cpu-usage-free like fw, it`s a commercial technology, not for low latency use. the usb soundcards bypass class-copliant drivers. buy one of the big toshiba notebooks - they have fw and TI chipsets. and expresscard TI chipsets. 17" sattelite, 17" quosmio, something like this...
thinkpadT520/win7.64/studioONE2/firefaceUC/akaiMPKmini/VSTinstruments/sampleCDs

casiblake
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Re: what is the deal notebook PCs coming without firewire ports?

Post by casiblake » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:07 pm

rosti wrote:You can get a PCMCIA (or what ever that is) firewire card! Solving device conflicts is what you PC fanboys like, right?

Seriously just get a mac! [/trolling] :lol:
Good luck finding an inexpensive laptop (that doesn't use some generic, horrible 1366x768 15.6" monitor) that has an expresscard slot any more, let alone the now-defunct PCMCIA.

Even Apple only put expresscard in the top-end Macbook Pro. Imbeciles.
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