Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
headquest
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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by headquest » Wed May 26, 2010 6:31 am

starving student wrote:good to see you again headquest, i remember when you went crazy :lol:
:lol: Yeah? I wonder which of my many episodes you saw :wink:
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headquest
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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by headquest » Wed May 26, 2010 6:35 am

deva wrote:
dazzer wrote:
starving student wrote:good to see you again headquest, i remember when you went crazy :lol:
True dat. However, if you want to find Headquest, just look on EVERY single thread on KVR that is critical of Ableton, you'll find him there... [which is, of course, fine and totally his right to do, just trying to help you guys link up :-)]
Oh, come on... I bet there is at least a couple threads he missed! :lol:
:lol: Loads actually. There's a lot of negativity to Live on KVR these days, because a lot of ex-Live users still use VST plugins, so KVR is a forum they will always frequent.

For my part though, if you did deeper you'll find loads of positive stuff I wrote there about Live too. I have used Live since version 2, and for several years it was my main software. In fact there's quite a few folk on KVR who got into Live in the first place because I used to rave about it so much.

But yeah, I guess when you really REALLY love something and it goes and lets you down, it's a hard one, and it's true I have expressed a lot of disappointment in recent months, along with others in the same position.
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Machinesworking
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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by Machinesworking » Wed May 26, 2010 7:16 am

lapieuvre wrote:Performer had that, before it was called Digital performer... What an innovation! (1995 or so)

The Daw that is the closest to live (though still far) is Sonar 8.5 with its Matrix view.
Digital Performer still uses Chunks which act a lot like Scenes in Live and Blocks in Reason now.
Actually Blocks remind me far more of Chunks than Lives Scenes/Session View. Though from what I can tell Chunks are even more versatile than Blocks.
( Chunks can be drug into each other and immediately placed in the song/sequence timeline, they have their own tempo and time signature much like Scenes in Live, but with a linear arrangement view as well.. )

headquest
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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by headquest » Wed May 26, 2010 7:30 am

The Arranger Track in Cubase is also far more advanced than Reason/Record's new Blocks feature, so far as I can tell at this point. However, that also means it's more difficult to use and time consuming to learn. I think a lot of Cubase users ignore it altogether, whereas the Blocks in Reason look very fast and I think they will be a major feature of workflow from now on.

The big draw with Live's Session View is obviously the real time launching for stage use, which is something totally different from Blocks (which is obviously a composing/arranging tool). Also of course the fact that individual clips can be launched seperately from scenes makes it a more versatile system entirely. That's why it's so great and still unique (although I think Renoise is doing something similar?)

The nice thing with Reason/Record's Blocks is that if you update a clip within the Blocks View, it is automatically updated in the Arrangment. For those who use this as a composing tool that could be a real timesaver, and something that Live doesn't do.

So each system has unique merits, making for an interesting comparisson and choice.
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flippo
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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by flippo » Wed May 26, 2010 7:40 am

headquest wrote:The Arranger Track in Cubase is also far more advanced than Reason/Record's new Blocks feature, so far as I can tell at this point. However, that also means it's more difficult to use and time consuming to learn. I think a lot of Cubase users ignore it altogether
I've used cubase for a while and didn't even know it existed 8O

headquest
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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by headquest » Wed May 26, 2010 7:51 am

:lol: exactly.

It's really worth checking out though. You can set up multiple different arrangements and trigger stuff in real time... it's actually closer to Session View than Reason's Blocks, and depending on your needs you may find it combines the best of both. One to read up on in the manual though :wink:
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dazzer
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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by dazzer » Wed May 26, 2010 7:59 am

headquest wrote: :lol: Loads actually. There's a lot of negativity to Live on KVR these days, because a lot of ex-Live users still use VST plugins, so KVR is a forum they will always frequent.

For my part though, if you did deeper you'll find loads of positive stuff I wrote there about Live too. I have used Live since version 2, and for several years it was my main software. In fact there's quite a few folk on KVR who got into Live in the first place because I used to rave about it so much.

But yeah, I guess when you really REALLY love something and it goes and lets you down, it's a hard one, and it's true I have expressed a lot of disappointment in recent months, along with others in the same position.
Well, as someone still on Live 7 I kind of shrug at the problems people have with Live as they've never really affected me, thank God the upgrade to 8 was so expensive I refused to pay for it.

Cubase? Not for me (dongled, you see) so I stay with what I know.

Anyway, I promise not to derail this thread any more and let the Props fans enjoy the news.

headquest
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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by headquest » Wed May 26, 2010 8:14 am

dazzer wrote: Well, as someone still on Live 7 I kind of shrug at the problems people have with Live as they've never really affected me, thank God the upgrade to 8 was so expensive I refused to pay for it.
Same here. But I wish it would be possible to buy - for example - a couple of the "Partner Instruments". Pity they only work with 8.1.3, and not with the stable version 7 I previously bought, and not easy to understand why. I think with Live we are kinda locked into buying every upgrade, whether it really works for us or not. So it becomes a more expensive ride. For me that's the main problem really. Not enough money to justify keeping all this stuff going, what with Sibelius, Cubase, etc as well :(
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Khazul
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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by Khazul » Wed May 26, 2010 8:19 am

headquest wrote:
I cant imagin anyone actually moving from a regular DAW to Reason/Record - they would just miss so much if they had a half decent collection of plugins. They are however quite useful tools to have handy to go along side an existing DAW, but comp[ared to working in Live, I find arranging in Record/Reason quite painful, with one exception - that mixer in Record.
Well VST plugins seem to get a big share of the blame around here (and elsewhere) for the stability problems in Live 8. So a closed system such as Reason makes quite a lot of sense... I've used it since version 2 and found it very reliable.
Not sure about that - most folks seems to be blaming M4L integration ;)
Nothing to see here - move along!

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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by Khazul » Wed May 26, 2010 8:22 am

headquest wrote: The nice thing with Reason/Record's Blocks is that if you update a clip within the Blocks View, it is automatically updated in the Arrangment. For those who use this as a composing tool that could be a real timesaver, and something that Live doesn't do.
Yes - I have always wished there was a way to optionally lock a clip in arrange view to allways reflect any changes made to the original in the session view.
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tlennon
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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by tlennon » Wed May 26, 2010 10:15 am

Khazul wrote:
headquest wrote: The nice thing with Reason/Record's Blocks is that if you update a clip within the Blocks View, it is automatically updated in the Arrangment. For those who use this as a composing tool that could be a real timesaver, and something that Live doesn't do.
Yes - I have always wished there was a way to optionally lock a clip in arrange view to allways reflect any changes made to the original in the session view.
That is a huge plus. I hope Abelton is taking notes. :wink:
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Jarvisimon
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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by Jarvisimon » Wed May 26, 2010 12:57 pm

dum wrote:
Jarvisimon wrote: Whoever said innovation was no longer possible?
Interesting fact: Ableton didn't come up with the matrix paradigm on their own. They simply implemented it at a time that gave them an edge over every other DAW alternative.
You'll find out that pretty much all functions in each and every daw is lifted from somewhere else. I doubt there'll be one addition to Reason 5 that will be truly innovative.

Even Ableton 9 won't be and neither will any of the competition. They'll more likely implement other peoples ideas in their own way rather than discover something totally original.

One day, we'll see the total homogenisation of music making software, indeed, we're seeing it already.

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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by rydan » Wed May 26, 2010 2:12 pm

Khazul wrote:
headquest wrote: The nice thing with Reason/Record's Blocks is that if you update a clip within the Blocks View, it is automatically updated in the Arrangment. For those who use this as a composing tool that could be a real timesaver, and something that Live doesn't do.
Yes - I have always wished there was a way to optionally lock a clip in arrange view to allways reflect any changes made to the original in the session view.
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headquest
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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by headquest » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:30 pm

Whoa! Check out what Computer Music have to say about this feature - read carefully!:
Computer Music magazine wrote:Comparissons are bound to be drawn with Ableton Live's "Session View" and Cubase's "Play Order Track" but that wouldn't be particularly fair. This is the fastest and most creative new approach to sequencing that we've seen in a long time. It's so intuitive and well thought out that there's no DAW we'd now rather sequence a track in more than Reason 5 or Record 1.5.
Damn!!!
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Re: Propellerhead Day 2: BLOCKS

Post by tlennon » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:38 pm

Quite interesting. Most of us will have to wait until the release to test that opinion.
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