Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Punky921
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Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by Punky921 » Thu May 27, 2010 2:40 pm

I'm a bit of an Ableton newbie still, but I can't say I'm into Analog or Operator. I don't really like the presets (they sound tinny and... cheap to me somehow - the Casio electric piano sounds bore me to tears).

I'm thinking about getting Reaktor because there are some really good used deals flying around right now. What do you guys think?

SubLixx
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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by SubLixx » Thu May 27, 2010 2:50 pm

Reaktor is a wicked choice, needs updating though...
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photonal
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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by photonal » Thu May 27, 2010 2:50 pm

try putting a 'chorus' or 'dynamic tube' effect after the operator/analog preset

Punky921
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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by Punky921 » Thu May 27, 2010 3:00 pm

photonal wrote:try putting a 'chorus' or 'dynamic tube' effect after the operator/analog preset
I futzed about last night with both of those actually, and finally found a bass sound I liked with Analog. It just felt like I was compensating for something that shouldn't have to be compensated for.

leedsquietman
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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by leedsquietman » Thu May 27, 2010 3:04 pm

Look at sounds for Operator and Analogue by Covert Operators or Puremagnetik, they showcase the synths much better than the presets that come with Live.

Or learn about programming FM synths for Operator, or subtractive synthesis for Analogue and 'roll your own' sounds. Then you will see the benefit.

As the previous poster mentions, many softsynths or hardware workstation synths such as a Korg M3 or Roland V-Synth often are drenched in reverb and modulation FX (chorus/flange/phase/delays) etc, whereas some of the presets for Operator and Analogue (especially) are dry. So adding FX can make some of these sounds come alive.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

Punky921
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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by Punky921 » Thu May 27, 2010 3:10 pm

leedsquietman wrote:Look at sounds for Operator and Analogue by Covert Operators or Puremagnetik, they showcase the synths much better than the presets that come with Live.

Or learn about programming FM synths for Operator, or subtractive synthesis for Analogue and 'roll your own' sounds. Then you will see the benefit.

As the previous poster mentions, many softsynths or hardware workstation synths such as a Korg M3 or Roland V-Synth often are drenched in reverb and modulation FX (chorus/flange/phase/delays) etc, whereas some of the presets for Operator and Analogue (especially) are dry. So adding FX can make some of these sounds come alive.
Hmm. Interesting. I'll give it a shot and see what happens. Thanks for the tip.

Since I'm just starting to get serious about my productions, I think there's a tendency to go crazy buying new shit. But I guess the better solution is always to do more with what you have.

supamonsta
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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by supamonsta » Thu May 27, 2010 3:18 pm

try to test reaktor before you buy,

Reaktor is dope, but reaktor is really COMPLEX, and it may not fit everyone's need / workflow.

I was ready to buy it for cheap last year, then I decided to test it a bit furthermore before purchasing, then I realised it was not for me.

no time to spend into such a big learning curve... :|

but really brilliant software, indeed

nylarch
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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by nylarch » Thu May 27, 2010 3:26 pm

One problem with Reaktor is there is just SO MUCH there you can end up just preset surfing. The GUI's are generally not great so its hard to take the time to focus on one ensemble and really figure it out. One strategy I'm experimenting with is sampling Reaktor synths and saving them as Sampler instruments where I know that interface and know how to tweak it.
MacBook Pro; Live 8 Suite, Reaktor; '77 Fender Jazz Bass; Apogee One;

Punky921
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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by Punky921 » Thu May 27, 2010 4:04 pm

nylarch wrote:One problem with Reaktor is there is just SO MUCH there you can end up just preset surfing. The GUI's are generally not great so its hard to take the time to focus on one ensemble and really figure it out. One strategy I'm experimenting with is sampling Reaktor synths and saving them as Sampler instruments where I know that interface and know how to tweak it.

Hmm. Interesting. I wouldn't even mind preset surfing if they were GOOD presets. Hell if I like a preset, I'm totally happy just using it as is. Like the Borealis preset for (I think) Operator. That's a great setting. I'm more than happy to use that as is.

Angstrom
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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by Angstrom » Thu May 27, 2010 4:25 pm

Analog and operator aren't the most complex synths on the planet, but are great for certain specific uses. Analog is great for the standard VA "monosynth" type roles, moog basses, sync leads, etc. But it's not a multifunctional "monster" like a Zebra, or similar.

Operator tends to work best for me when stacked in racks, that way each clump of voices can be processed and modulatex separately. Some people seem to think it's "cheating" to rate the synth's potential by adding lots of them together, but I look at Operator in racks as a sort of (limited) modular synth. Add as many oscillators and filters as you like. Its lightweight on CPU enough to do that.

if you want a "wall of sound" type synth then these are not that. But they are capable building blocks. Other building blocks are, of course, available elsewhere.

Punky921
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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by Punky921 » Thu May 27, 2010 4:33 pm

How do you stack them in a rack?

HeadrickProductions
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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by HeadrickProductions » Thu May 27, 2010 4:34 pm

go with reaktor + ableton. I agree that alot of the sutff sounds bad in ableton. Yes there are tricks just like in reason to add a bunch of effects and make it sound somewhat better. Reaktor gives you complete control over sounds you make.

With out really good compressors and EQ it really limits what you can do.

If you run out and get some third party stuff Everything coming out of ableton sounds SO MUCH BETTER. SSL stuff is not bad and there are also some free stuff that makes things sound a lot better

Ableton is great for a host (performance) and editing audio. The the suite bundle did not do it for me at all and diecdied to invest money else where.

I am just getting into reaktor and it is a lifetime pursuit. Just searching all the free stuff in the user library is a task let alone really getting under the hood and making your own stuff.

You can't go wrong with getting into reaktor and then using ableton to host reaktor
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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by SubFunk » Thu May 27, 2010 4:48 pm

reactor is a beast, it is entirely up to you how deep you want to explore the rabbit hole.

same for tassman4 or m4l, i use all of those, and never built a single unit myself and i never will, i am more interested into actually making music or mixing, producing also for others.
still i make great advantage of the vast choice of existing modules. the libraries that exist for all of those are already mad and cost way to much time exploring all.
i actually 'fixed' myself to a handfull each and that is more then enough for me.

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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by ShelLuser » Thu May 27, 2010 5:06 pm

This maybe a cliched response since well, I am a fanboy (hey, at least I admit as much ;-)), but if you're looking for more while your main DAW is Live I'd also seriously look at Max for Live.

Granted; if you're looking for a quick way to get lots more sound and/or instrument presets then this might not be the best choice, but if you're also looking for a way which allows you to greatly expand your current possibilities using more than pre-made solutions then it just might...

Max' sound engine is pretty impressive. Though M4L uses Live's engine, with the Max runtime you can easily use this stuff in a stand-alone way (rewire master/slave) and being able to fully create or customize your own effects can go a long way.

Not going into any "Reaktor vs. Max" discussion here, but from what I've seen and read about Reaktor I think its safe to say that Max will probably take (lots) more time to get into. But then again; I also think M4L blends better into Live than Reaktor.


Having said all that I do agree with some of the previous comments; both Operator and Analog should be well capable of producing full and deep sounds.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

Poster
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Re: Considering Reaktor because Ableton Suite leaves me cold...

Post by Poster » Thu May 27, 2010 5:14 pm

nylarch wrote:One strategy I'm experimenting with is sampling Reaktor synths and saving them as Sampler instruments where I know that interface and know how to tweak it.
wouldn't it be easier to redo the GUI so you're personally familiar with it?
I mean the sampling takes a lot of time and isn't as flexible in the end..
ShelLuser wrote:Max for Live.
the OP is talking synthesis.. Max isn't really the go-to option compared to Reaktor..

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