Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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stringtapper
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by stringtapper » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:00 pm

The Finn wrote:If I understand it correctly, with what sounds consonant or dissonant seems in many cases conditioned by cultural expectations, not by mathematical laws...
It's certainly cultural to an extent, but there are psychoacoustic elements at play in the perception of dissonance.

Helmholtz's On the Sensations of Tone as a Physiological Basis for the Theory of Music is probably the earliest writing on the subject.

Plomp 1965 - "Tonal Consonance and Critical Bandwidth" gets into more recent work.

Put simply it has to do with the first few partials of a complex tone and how they relate to the partials of another tone sounding simultaneously. If some or all of the partials are within about a minor 3rd of each other then a sense of "roughness" emerges which contributes to our perception of an interval being "dissonant."
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re:dream
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by re:dream » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:57 pm

Except I sometimes likes it "rough" :oops: 8)

I mean that I have found I can enjoy the effects when I play two notes that are too close together in the lower registers.

But, I take your point. I did not mean *entirely* culturally conditioned.

stringtapper
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by stringtapper » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:15 pm

The Finn wrote:Except I sometimes likes it "rough" :oops: 8)

I mean that I have found I can enjoy the effects when I play two notes that are too close together in the lower registers.
Yeah, that's the cultural part. :)
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pepezabala
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by pepezabala » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:08 pm

ikeaboy wrote:This might be worth a read for anyone on the fence http://www.overtone.cc/profiles/blogs/4 ... per-second

I was considering all this but, then again, don't I detune most of my instruments slightly (and my whole track pre-master usually- a Martin Hannett trick) until they feel good to me already? So this strikes me as snake oil, advertised as a short cut to the creation of music that speaks to people's inner world. I think those exploring it should continue by all means because it's such a complex area who knows what will come of it in the end.
great read. thank you!

stringtapper
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by stringtapper » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:39 am

sound.audio.music wrote:This is not hocus pocus woowoo stuff, it's just mathematical relationships. Whether you see meaning in them is purely up to you.
That last article posted reminded me of the problem with the above statement.

The problem is that any mathematical relationships that one can find are based on inherently arbitrary units of measure, namely the hertz and the second. Since Hz is a measure of how many cycles a wave goes through in the span of one second the Hz is dependent upon the second as its benchmark.

Units of time do not exist inherently in nature. They have been created by humans to enable us to situate events in our lives within a measurable continuum. They are mostly based on observations of our particular environment (e.g. The earth's revolution around the sun). In other words they are completely arbitrary and do not originate from nature itself.

Therefore any relationship that numbers such as 432 might have with other mathematical measurements must be completely coincidental.
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ambientidm
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by ambientidm » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:27 am

AbleToRemember wrote:Greetings,

I have just recorded my first song in 432 hz using ableton 8 suite. I ended up retuning all my stringed instruments to A 432 hz (acoustic guitars), by putting on a heavier gage string (medium, d'addario exp17) which worked very well. You can either use the tone frequency selector under ableton preferences, then select audio, this will give you a reference at least. A lot of tuners out there do not support 432 tuning, although there are some tuning apps for ipod touch that do.
After this I recorded my guitar track, dropped in some drum loops, played a bass line on the keyboard (using ableton instrument) and detuned it to approx. -32 cents. I did the same when recording a piano track. I then sung my lead vox and two harmony sections.
This song was completed using 432 hz and I have to share that singing at this frequency is much more relaxed and resonant. When I listened to the song after completion, I was amazed at the difference between 440 and 432, 432 just feels better. A highly recommend giving this a try and see (feel) for yourself.
This worked for me, I realize that retuning instruments is a bit of a pain, but makes the most sense, you will feel the difference in the resonance (especially acoustic guitar).

Best of luck,

Brett
ni guitar rig supports a 432 as a tuner
omnisphere supports it natively
and so does the ultimate masterpiece of sound design and cosmic waves
http://www.2caudio.com/products/kaleidoscope

in rapture and alchemy (my two other favs) i just use the fine tune adjustments

Timbeaux
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by Timbeaux » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:14 am

I found this site & pics today.

http://earthweareone.com/heres-why-you- ... -to-432hz/

any thoughts?

eyeknow
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by eyeknow » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:24 am

Well, you wouldn't know from the "live" tuner :x

Just had to say that, even reason has a fucking tuner :evil:

be tonal
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by be tonal » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:54 pm

eyeknow wrote:Well, you wouldn't know from the "live" tuner :x

Just had to say that, even reason has a fucking tuner :evil:
Ableton hast vsts :roll:

And Reason is a lot more professional than you´d think.

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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by yur2die4 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:33 pm

Timbeaux wrote:I found this site & pics today.

http://earthweareone.com/heres-why-you- ... -to-432hz/

any thoughts?
Nope. No thoughts.

stringtapper
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by stringtapper » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:33 pm

Timbeaux wrote:I found this site & pics today.

http://earthweareone.com/heres-why-you- ... -to-432hz/

any thoughts?
There's a discussion about it here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=143601
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Angstrom
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by Angstrom » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:37 pm

Timbeaux wrote:I found this site & pics today.

http://earthweareone.com/heres-why-you- ... -to-432hz/

any thoughts?
What you are seeing on those Chladni plates is a standing wave, what this means is THAT PLATE has a resonance at 432 hz. Imagine a similar membrane to this plate, a drum skin, now you know that a drum skin size and tension will determine its tuning. Right? So if you hit it with a stick it will make a noise with resonances at related pitches.
http://www.phy.davidson.edu/stuhome/der ... plates.htm

A small or a tight membrane, will have a higher pitch than a large or loose membrane.
Image

So what you are seeing in those particular Chladni plates is simply somebody trying to prove their own belief. In fact it's just THAT PLATE which vibrates with a resonance at 432. That is all.

As for the experiments of Dr Masaru Emoto and the supposed resonances of various songs. LOL. This is the guy who could talk to water, who thought water has a memory. It's a nonsense. But but but ... he's a Doctor ! He must be a respected and learned scientist of some kind.
In October of 1992, he received certification from the Open International University as a Doctor of Alternative Medicine. If you would like to become one yourself then feel free to obtain one, by email. It will cost you $242 USD though. http://ointunialtmed.net/phd-programme

If you start to believe this stuff, then I strongly suggest you take a look at your gravity bong and think deeply "am I becoming a credulous kook who believes in any fairy story which supports my fantasy lifestyle of being a modern day wizard"

All my friends who used to follow this guy feverishly and only drink water which had been sanctified through his wacko methods, they are now on antipsychotic medication. I assume this is something to do with the resonance of their bongwater.

stringtapper
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by stringtapper » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:43 pm

^ All of that.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:06 pm

Well, someone is making an effort on the subject: 432-essentials by Subaqueous Music.
Essential tools to jumpstart you into the world of 432 and microtonal music. 77 custom instruments that are tuned to 432 and Scale of Fifths. You can drag and drop the instruments into your production to quickly start creating in 432.
Quote from Subaqueous Music

My apologies if this was already mentioned. If so I missed it.
Make some music!

stringtapper
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Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???

Post by stringtapper » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:10 pm

Now if only the believers would make an effort to find out why it's bullshit.
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