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 Post subject: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:47 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Germany
Hey folks,

is there any speacialist out there who has done this in Live or knows how? I know its possible it's just a question of effort...

Ideas greatly apprechiated! :D



8O

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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 23576
Location: SF, CA
Live itself doesn't make any noises, detune the synths.

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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:21 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Germany
Ok, dumb question, sorry. I just put a frequency shifter -7.9Hz on the Master... I guess it does the job. 432,10 Hz is related to the Schumann-resonance-frequenzy, idian istruments are also tuned like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:50 pm 

Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 11:39 am
Posts: 61
Totally not a dumb question.
Some programs (such as Reason) have a master tuning setting in the preferences. Unfortunately I can't see one in Live.
What's it for by the way?


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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:52 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm
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Buy a Mac

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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:16 pm
Posts: 377
It's not a dumb question. Live Suite could really use a global tune function, or to support the import of Scala files with all of the included synths, as it is difficult and time consuming to retune each individual instrument or sample to a specific frequency.

I personally would not use a Frequency Shifter effect on Live's master output for a polyphonic mix, if optimal sound quality is wanted.

On OS X there is a third party commercial option called Li'l Miss' Scale Oven which supports Operator, Simpler and Tension, for $165.


Last edited by Akshara on Fri May 28, 2010 10:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 23576
Location: SF, CA
Akshara wrote:
I personally would not use a Frequency Shifter effect on Live's master output for a polyphonic mix, if optimal sound quality is wanted.

+1

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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 1:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm
Posts: 9998
Tone Deft wrote:
Akshara wrote:
I personally would not use a Frequency Shifter effect on Live's master output for a polyphonic mix, if optimal sound quality is wanted.

+1

+1000... that's not the tool for the job..
detune the oscillators on the synths you're using..

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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 1:25 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Germany
Damn, it doesn't have the same result anyway. Detuning the synths is also not the thing to do... That sucks...

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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 1:38 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm
Posts: 9998
you might want to consider a synth that can load tuning files (.tun)..
Absynth does that.. and some others as well..
although de-tuning the oscillators should work

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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 2:15 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:13 pm
Posts: 3645
Aeroplay wrote:
idian istruments are also tuned like that.

idian istruments You mean Indian instruments?
That is total nonsense, reference tone as such never existed, never been used in Indian music- the fundamental note "SA" is not C (though too often simplified to it by lousy musicologist) it can be any frequence depending on individual vox or instrument. Sitar is mostly anything between B and D, Sarod Bb-D#, female voice E-G etc,etc,etc.
Once that "Middle voice" "Sa" is defined all the intervals are related to it not any absolute 440 or 432. That is why whole pseudo mystical bullshit that particular frequency is happy other sad ( whatever) wont apply within Indian music system because the very same physical frequency can be depending on what the "tonic" the "Sa" i,s a second fifth or flat 7.
In modern Indian commercial music where Indian instruments are used along with western and electronic regular 440 is used. Mystic sound of ancient India Hokus pokus that will let you ride on spinning chakras was invented by hippies on LSD.

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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 2:25 pm 

Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 6:25 pm
Posts: 414
If you don't need it to be live you could render the output and play it back / resample it at a slightly slower rate.

(0.982/1) so 44100 * 0.982 = 43306, for example, roughly speaking.


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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 3:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:37 am
Posts: 10
Greetings,

I have just recorded my first song in 432 hz using ableton 8 suite. I ended up retuning all my stringed instruments to A 432 hz (acoustic guitars), by putting on a heavier gage string (medium, d'addario exp17) which worked very well. You can either use the tone frequency selector under ableton preferences, then select audio, this will give you a reference at least. A lot of tuners out there do not support 432 tuning, although there are some tuning apps for ipod touch that do.
After this I recorded my guitar track, dropped in some drum loops, played a bass line on the keyboard (using ableton instrument) and detuned it to approx. -32 cents. I did the same when recording a piano track. I then sung my lead vox and two harmony sections.
This song was completed using 432 hz and I have to share that singing at this frequency is much more relaxed and resonant. When I listened to the song after completion, I was amazed at the difference between 440 and 432, 432 just feels better. A highly recommend giving this a try and see (feel) for yourself.
This worked for me, I realize that retuning instruments is a bit of a pain, but makes the most sense, you will feel the difference in the resonance (especially acoustic guitar).

Best of luck,

Brett


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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 9:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:02 am
Posts: 653
Location: Auckland
Unfortunately, it ISN'T an easy thing to do with Live's Synths. Detuning oscillators is tedious as it sounds like the OP realized. OP, what are you trying to do?

I wholeheartedly recommend Lil' Miss Scale Oven for more involved tuning tasks. I own it, and it has helped me place all the moveable frets (perdelar) on my Turkish bowed tanbur. I just load a .tun file that I've created into Zebra and reference the notes that way. BUT there are a million and one applications for this kind of thing, and it sounds like your problem may not be so involved.

If you are just looking to change the fundamental reference frequency of your synths, then unfortunately even Ableton's pitch midi effect will not do (it only adjusts by semitones, and you need something finer) and you need something that references hertz rather than cents.

Maybe there is a M4L patch that can allow Abe's synths to have a finer pitch resolution adjustment? Any M4L programmmers out there to confirm this? Tone Deft? This is different than needing a full-fledged synth retuning program like Lil' Miss Scale Oven or Scala.

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 Post subject: Re: Tune Live to 432,10 Hz (instead of 440) ???
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 11:13 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm
Posts: 9998
...SCALA FILES

http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/

"Several software synthesizers like AlsaModularSynth, Tobybear Helios, MAZ Sound VSampler, Orion Pro, VirSyn Cube, Cantor, TERA 2, rgc:audio z3ta+, Cakewalk Dimension Pro and Rapture, Oblivion VSTi and ZynAddSubFX have adopted the Scala scale file format as a means to tune them instead of via a special tuning dump file. More will hopefully be following."

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Last edited by 3dot... on Sat May 29, 2010 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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