What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
hoffman2k
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by hoffman2k » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:22 am

:lol:

"I know this and that for a fact, just not sure if its true..."

Paraphrasing is fun!

Honestly, are you even capable of producing 2 audio files that might back up ANY claim you make?
It shouldn't be that hard to actually test, since you got all the expertise required.

3phase
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by 3phase » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:39 am

hoffman2k wrote::lol:

"I know this and that for a fact, just not sure if its true..."

Paraphrasing is fun!

Honestly, are you even capable of producing 2 audio files that might back up ANY claim you make?
It shouldn't be that hard to actually test, since you got all the expertise required.

sure.. but i dont own the measuring equipment it requires to do a ful ldaw checkup nor would i like to spend my freetime to proove what i know allready...

but if there is a difference i would be able to nail it and superimpose it by the choice of measurement procedre and source material...

as i said.. i only trust tetst i ve manipulated myself...
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kb420
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by kb420 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:41 am

dum wrote:Well...I suspect user 'error' here.
If simply rewiring audio into live is enough to arse up the quality I'm sure it would be extremely well documented (and fixed) by now...

nevertheless, I'm still interested in your conclusions now that you raise the question

User "error"????

Well, in your infinite wisdom, please explain what I could be doing wrong.

I was hoping that it's a bug in the beta, but simply rewiring audio into Live is all that I did.
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

anybody human
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by anybody human » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:54 am

All DAWs handle digital summing differently, DAWs do sound different. That's way down on the list of things that will affect sound quality though. Calls for an "A B" test are silly, that's not how it works. If you can hear a difference, then trust your ears. I use Live as much as possible cos it's a great envionment for creating music. It wasn't made for mixing, it works fine but it's not the best enviornment for that IMO so I use Pro Tools to mix down. I do hear a difference, but I have everything else coverered, interface, converters, mics, preamps, monitors, mix enviornment (to an extent) etc. I wouldn't say that the program I mix in is the key factor in sound quality, it's more a workflow thing. If you're getting results you're happy with in with whatever setup you're using, that's all that matters.

hoffman2k
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by hoffman2k » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:20 pm

3phase wrote:
hoffman2k wrote::lol:

"I know this and that for a fact, just not sure if its true..."

Paraphrasing is fun!

Honestly, are you even capable of producing 2 audio files that might back up ANY claim you make?
It shouldn't be that hard to actually test, since you got all the expertise required.

sure.. but i dont own the measuring equipment it requires to do a ful ldaw checkup nor would i like to spend my freetime to proove what i know allready...

but if there is a difference i would be able to nail it and superimpose it by the choice of measurement procedre and source material...

as i said.. i only trust tetst i ve manipulated myself...
But the fact you can't prove it is why you're still making the same claims 17 pages later.
You can claim you don't want to spend time proving it, but so far you've spent several hours claiming you could prove it if you wanted to.

The joke of it all being, if you can prove something is wrong, it can get fixed.

dum
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by dum » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:33 pm

kb420 wrote:
dum wrote:Well...I suspect user 'error' here.
If simply rewiring audio into live is enough to arse up the quality I'm sure it would be extremely well documented (and fixed) by now...

nevertheless, I'm still interested in your conclusions now that you raise the question

User "error"????

Well, in your infinite wisdom, please explain what I could be doing wrong.

I was hoping that it's a bug in the beta, but simply rewiring audio into Live is all that I did.
:roll:

Why do you think I framed the word "error" with single inverted commas ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_ ... sual_usage

I wasn't suggesting that you're a moron, but I'm reconsidering that now.
What I was attempting to suggest was that you are probably overlooking something. I couldn't guess what, but that's what I wager. Do your 'tests' and report.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

kb420
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by kb420 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:02 pm

dum wrote:I wasn't suggesting that you're a moron, but I'm reconsidering that now.
What I was attempting to suggest was that you are probably overlooking something. I couldn't guess what, but that's what I wager. Do your 'tests' and report.

Well, I'm not suspecting anything. I'm 100% sure that you are an asshole! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

dum
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by dum » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:04 pm

Guilty as charged.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

kb420
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by kb420 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:11 pm

dum wrote:Guilty as charged.
:)

I'll post my results when I have them. I really think it may actually be a bug in the beta.
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

dum
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by dum » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:24 pm

Ya i'm interested in your conclusions...


:?: :!:
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

3phase
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by 3phase » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:33 pm

hoffman2k wrote:
The joke of it all being, if you can prove something is wrong, it can get fixed.
i dont need to proove anything..ableton is in need of proove here because nobody belives them that they have the same soundquality as any other daw.. people really laugh in your face when you try to tell them that

beside such measurings and test are a serious development task .. nothing you do in one day ..
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Dennis DeSantis
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:51 pm

Hi folks,

Let's try to keep the conversation civil. There's no need to be abusive to other forum members over something like audio quality.

Live's Audio Fact Sheet is an attempt to clarify a number of frequently asked questions about Live's audio engine and behavior. Please note, however, that we make no claims about what users can or can't hear. We only make claims about what Live actually does.

What we know to be true, provided you do ONLY the "neutral operations" listed in the Audio Fact Sheet, is that the files are unchanged by Live.

If your subjective experience when using Live is worse than your subjective experience when using another piece of audio software, then there's something wrong. Whether the thing that's wrong is in the software or in some other part of your tool chain, however, can be objectively determined by phase cancellation tests.

If you still believe you're hearing something, please make sure that you're not warping, applying effects, etc. It is absolutely the case that warping, adding effects, etc. will change the quality of Live's sound.

But if you're sure that you're hearing differences AND you're sure that the files you're applying neutral operations to phase cancel with non-modified files, then you are hearing something that cannot be explained by facts. This is not to say that it's not there - there's certainly evidence for placebo effects and other psychosomatic phenomena. But please understand that this is not something we can "fix."

Best,

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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by Isturite- » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:18 pm

wow, dennis cleared this up for me.... but it all comes back to the beginning again... is there something wrong with the sound quality? I don't think many people really know for sure.... but I continue to hear more about it's bad sound quality... numerous times I have been told to use ableton only for live performance, and do my producing in something else... or at least if I produce in ableton then to do my mixing and eq'ing in another program... then play all my tracks with warp off

when it comes down to it though... ableton does not match up to other's sound quality because of the way the music is performed (at least if you are mixing loops)... whenever i hear somebody do an ableton set, and another person do a cdj/vinyl set.... the cdj/vinyl ALWAYS sound better, maybe it's mastering.... but no questions asked, I can hear ableton from so far away on a big system... I have done it multiple times, just tried to guess "this guy sounds like hes using ableton..."... so i walk up to the side of the stage to observe what he's using, and blam... ableton like i'd thought... I've never been wrong either! lol
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by Tone Deft » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:23 pm

Image
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Re: What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

Post by Poster » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:42 pm

Isturite- wrote:I can hear ableton from so far away on a big system... I have done it multiple times, just tried to guess "this guy sounds like hes using ableton..."... so i walk up to the side of the stage to observe what he's using, and blam... ableton like i'd thought... I've never been wrong either! lol
I can do that without even listening to the music.. 8O

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