Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
howsoonisnow
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Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by howsoonisnow » Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:20 pm

I was wondering if there was way to configure the Draw/pencil mode. [When you manually draw the keyboard notes in the piano with the mouse and not a midi keyboard.] To be "VERY-USER-Friendly" like FL - Studio.

I hate how Ableton makes you click on/off if just want to extend a note. It's so stupid!

Please anyhow know if there is like a special way to re-wire it?

gibson_ewok
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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by gibson_ewok » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:49 pm

I think it's pretty easy. I have 2 methods when writing MIDI in Ableton with a mouse.

Method 1 : Have 1 hand on ctrl + b or cmd + b on mac. And press cmd + b to go into pencil mode to draw a note then cmd + b again to go back to cursor mode where you can mess with the length.

Method 2 : Double click once somewhere on the matrix editor (piano roll) to create a note. Then turn the headphone icon on in the top left of the piano roll then press cmd + d to duplicate notes and the left, right, up and down keys to move your newly duplicated note around. You will be able to hear the note its producing if you have that headphone icon turned on (it will go blue). Press shift up and down to move octaves.

Hope this helps.

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Tweaking Knobs
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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by Tweaking Knobs » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:38 pm

thas exactly what we are trying to avoid.



left click -add note / point in automation
right click -erase
ñeft and drag - drag


faster

ShelLuser
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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by ShelLuser » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:55 pm

howsoonisnow wrote:I hate how Ableton makes you click on/off if just want to extend a note. It's so stupid!
Huh? 8O

They don't. Before complaining I really suggest trying this stuff out yourself first. :roll:

When you have a midi clip simply double click it to enter clip view. Then you can mangle the notes as much as you want: move, resize, alter velocity on either one, several or all notes. Once selected you can even move stuff one octave up or down with the press of a button (actually two ;-)).
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

Tweaking Knobs
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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by Tweaking Knobs » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:54 pm

hi,

its not about the clips in session view.


are the notes , and also automation points


" Having to switch between two tools to do one thing , editing ,is slower as not having to switch back and forwards "

ShelLuser
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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by ShelLuser » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:05 pm

When you want to extend on a note you're talking about midi data aren't you?

And I have said nothing about session view; only clip view which is available in both session and arrangement view. What I mentioned above goes for both. Double click on a clip and you can extend notes as much as you like.

Funny to suddenly mention automation as well, but seriously; same answer. You can easily alter automation in arrangement view lanes without having draw mode enabled.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

Isturite-
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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by Isturite- » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:18 pm

ya this is one place where Ableton owns reason... you don't have to switch tools... they are all in the mouse... once enter the piano roll... double click to add a note or erase one OR right click and select the draw mode which allows you to add and erase notes with one click vs two clicks... to extend notes, make sure you have draw mode off, click and drag the edge of the note, same thing goes for automation.... personally I think it's much easier than FL
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H20nly
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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by H20nly » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:54 pm

In FL you draw your whole pattern in (with the pencil) not the notes don't you? Notes are part of the pattern and then you draw the pattern in based on how many bars you set it to be.

In Live you can draw a pattern by hand (if you want) and then you can select it and hit ctrl + d to duplicate so you don't actually have to switch tools or anything. Aside from getting started (in Live), which I've never figured out how to do without hitting record for a second, then stopping and then resizing the clip, it seems to me that it takes the same amount of steps. To get started in FL your pattern is ready, unlike Live, but you still have to click on the _______ button (whatever FL calls that bit where you use the pencil, brush etc.) so you're at like a click or two difference.

Considering how many times you'd be tapping if you were actually playing your own beat... this seems like a moot point. :wink:
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hdpguitar
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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by hdpguitar » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:15 pm

I feel the original poster. FL is WAY more intuitive and logical with the pencil/draw tool. Whatever you're pointing at, the pencil adjusts that. Each note also has an individual pan slider much like it's velocity slider. And, you can draw notes freely on the piano roll. With ableton when you click-hold you can only draw notes on the exact note you were hovering over when you clicked (horizontally). Click-hold vertical movement for velocity is not useful to me. IN FL you just draw whatever you want with click-hold, on different notes, draw a picture with the notes, freely, then you can hover over the velocity/panning sliders and draw right on top of that too. Bam! You can also group stretch/shrink, and stretch the notes so much they cover other notes if you decide you want them spaced out more. It's just more fun and let's you be more creative and playful. The ableton draw mode is like putting training wheels on a bike and then removing some gears and making it harder to steer. I still enjoy ableton very much, but the FL draw mode is much better.

Scoox
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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by Scoox » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:10 am

It would be better if right-button swipe deleted notes, like in FL. Right-click without moving the mouse to show the context menu, right-click+swipe to delete notes. ATM in Ableton Live both of these distinct actions perform the same function—to display the context menu. Seems wasteful.

Scoox
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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by Scoox » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:57 pm

To add to my previous post, when drawing in notes using the double-click method (which is fine by me), why not allow users to move the note up/down/left/right by holding down a modifier key? ATM none of the modifier keys do anything in this context, we might as well put them to use, no?

Furthermore, in Arrange View, you also double-click to draw in a new clip, but you cannot resize the clip like you can resize notes in the MIDI Note Editor, by dragging left/right as you draw in the new clip. This disagrees with the MIDI Note Editor workflow.
Last edited by Scoox on Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

jestermgee
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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by jestermgee » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:15 pm

Scoox wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:57 pm
To add to my previous post, when drawing in notes using the double-click method, which is fine by me, it would be nice if at least there was a key combination to enable us to adjust also note pitch and position. ATM only velocity and length can be adjusted. So yeah, maybe hold down Ctrl to do that. Right now none of the modifier keys do anything in this context, again, it seems wasteful.
You can adjust a notes pitch and position using just keyboard commands...

If you select a note you can adjust pitch/position by simply using the arrow keys to move the selected note/s around the piano roll
Hold SHIFT to move up/down by octave
Hold ALT to move by small amounts without snapping
Hold Shift+Alt to adjust length of selected notes with L/R arrows
Hold CTRL and use the UP/DN arrows to move the selection to another note
Hold CTRL + SHIFT and use the UP/DN arrows to select multiple notes

The only thing that you cannot do purely from the keyboard that I have found is to adjust velocity where you need to either click the actual velocity pin or hold ALT and then grab a note and drag up/down to adjust velocity.

It can sometimes be a pain / inconvenience / game breaking experience when a feature from product X isn't in product Y but often it's just a slightly different approach than you are use to and takes some time to learn how it works and make it work for you. Live does fast work using keyboard commands along with the mouse to edit MIDI so it probably just means you need some time to adjust and adapt.

Scoox
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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by Scoox » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:03 am

jestermgee wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:15 pm
You can adjust a notes pitch and position using just keyboard commands...

If you select a note you can adjust pitch/position by simply using the arrow keys to move the selected note/s around the piano roll
Hold SHIFT to move up/down by octave
Hold ALT to move by small amounts without snapping
Hold Shift+Alt to adjust length of selected notes with L/R arrows
Hold CTRL and use the UP/DN arrows to move the selection to another note
Hold CTRL + SHIFT and use the UP/DN arrows to select multiple notes

The only thing that you cannot do purely from the keyboard that I have found is to adjust velocity where you need to either click the actual velocity pin or hold ALT and then grab a note and drag up/down to adjust velocity.

It can sometimes be a pain / inconvenience / game breaking experience when a feature from product X isn't in product Y but often it's just a slightly different approach than you are use to and takes some time to learn how it works and make it work for you. Live does fast work using keyboard commands along with the mouse to edit MIDI so it probably just means you need some time to adjust and adapt.
I edited my previous post a bit. Anyway, I agree keyboard shortcuts are great and use them myself, but when I'm drawing notes with the mouse, my right hand would have to constantly jump between the mouse and the arrow keys between it would be a lot easier to do it just with the mouse, if note pitch could be adjusted directly with the mouse. It's not a matter of getting used to it. The reason other DAWs implement this is because it works well—no point pretending we can make a square wheel work for us when the round wheel is obviously better. I mean, Steve Jobs tried for a very long time to convince us that the mouse only needs one button, and failed.

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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by jestermgee » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:36 am

Not sure why you need to jump between mouse and keyboard when you have 2 hands (you do have 2 hands I assume)?

Pitch can be adjusted with mouse by just grabbing the note (click + hold) and moving it with the mouse. Or using one hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard you can make even faster work of the whole thing without having to resort to the hassle of right-click menus and the like.

As someone who is accustomed to how it all works and has been a happy user for 10+ years now i'm not exactly convinced that Daw X does it "better", just different and I am sure if I started trying to do the same edits I would be just as frustrated it doesn't work exactly the same as Live.

Give it some time to get your head around and it will just become another mundane thing that gets things done.

Scoox
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Re: Is there a way to make the draw mode like FL-Studio?

Post by Scoox » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:43 am

jestermgee wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:36 am
Not sure why you need to jump between mouse and keyboard when you have 2 hands (you do have 2 hands I assume)?

Pitch can be adjusted with mouse by just grabbing the note (click + hold) and moving it with the mouse. Or using one hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard you can make even faster work of the whole thing without having to resort to the hassle of right-click menus and the like.

As someone who is accustomed to how it all works and has been a happy user for 10+ years now i'm not exactly convinced that Daw X does it "better", just different and I am sure if I started trying to do the same edits I would be just as frustrated it doesn't work exactly the same as Live.

Give it some time to get your head around and it will just become another mundane thing that gets things done.
I think you are just failing to see my point. If the Ctrl key does nothing when held down while drawing in a note with the mouse, why not use it to enable note position in the piano roll? I mean, it's totally available.

I have two hands, but my left hand is on the left side of my keybaord, which means having to constantly jump between it's "home position" (ASDF keys) and the right side. BTW I use an Ergodox EZ keyboard so the left and right halves are physically separated (in my case about 2 feet apart).

I can release the note, and then drag it, but it would be nice if note position in time (left/right) and pitch (up/down) could be adjusted directly without letting go of the mouse button, for the very same reason velocity and note length can be adjusted this way when you draw in new notes.

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