How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Tagor
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:18 am

How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by Tagor » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:41 am

Hi Abletonians

There a some Questions bout the right way to get better results.

1. Is it neceseraly recommendet to rewire Live with Cubase to increase the soundquality ?

2. Is it bad to arrange all in Sessionview - having the vst´s generated the sounds in realtime ?

2a.Is it better to sample each little peace in process of quality-uplifting - even if
you loose the ability of realtime-changing the sound

3. Is live better to only present the results of a not portable oversized homestudio

or

4. Can even build with Live-only a compareable high Quality-Sound ?

5. What about 32 bit and 64 bit Systems and 24bit-Samples with 32bit-Samples,
when great Music even is done with atari or an jaw-harp.

6. What is the difference for Quality if i assign for each soundgenerating Plug a separate Channel on my interface. usualy i didnt do that, because of lives routing-abilities.
What may I win to give Bass and Kick a separte Channel on the soundinterface, or do it just waste CPU-Power ?

6a. If you give seperate channels, make it sence to route them into an external quality
hardware-mixer to increase the quality of sound and using that in live-situations, or is that not neccesary because Live is standalone allmighty to reach same results ?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts to all or one of this themes

beatflux
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Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:18 am

Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by beatflux » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:02 am

Don't waste ur time on this crap. Just focus on the music.

Tone Deft
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Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:10 am

beatflux wrote:Don't waste ur time on this crap. Just focus on the music.
:lol: well put.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

distaudio
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Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by distaudio » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:18 am

Better sound quality doesn't cover up shit music.

Just like a movie. You can have all the special effects in the world, but if your plot and story line a shit. It is going to be a flop.

Besides, what someone deems as good sound quality might be deemed as shit by another.

Create your own sound.

Tagor
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:18 am

Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by Tagor » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:07 am

if you sing or play an instrument like guitar or piano or violin
it may be a good adwise to concentrate only on the music, because
you transport the feeling of the music with your handplayed instruments
or transport emotions with voice

BUT

for electronic music the quality of the SOUND itself is a little bit more important
because your synths have to transport all the emotion and feelings, deepness and
individual touch or originalty other musicians apply by their skills with their prefered
instrument.

best example is the role of the bass-sound in modern dance music
apply a low-quality bass to the dancetracks then you can kick most
of them into the trashcan - so still the question for increasing
quality of sound made by humans sitting behind computers may not a bad thing

Tagor
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:18 am

Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by Tagor » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:54 am

ok the quality of an korg electribe bass-sound is kind off different then from a virus
you can filter until you get violet, there is a border you cant crack with the electribe
against the virus

so maybe there is also a border you reach until you rewire your outputs to cubase I.E
or until you stick your outputs of your single-assigend channels into an allen&heathmixer
after your soundcard - i think the questions are not so boring - or is LIVE an allmighty
standalone plug which only needs Asio4all and and a cheap onboardSoundchip - there are slight
differences which makes in the sum the quality of a bass- a reverb etc...

if we just would concentrate on the music we would still sit around the fire handclapping
and singing -what woul be not bad in some views for our earth
:D

i dont want discuss about soundengines - i hoped to get input about the thread theme
but the answers were more or less offtopic until now and i ask myself why - maybe
i asked the wrong questions

distaudio
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Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by distaudio » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:44 am

I think you need to determine "What is Quality?" before this can be a constructive thread.

I understand what you are saying about routing audio to different places etc. But I guess quality is subjective when it comes to sound.

For example.

I find that the sounds I produce in Reason through their mastering combo suite to be of a high quality sound for the electronic genre you are refering to.

I render those samples/loops down and throw them into Live's session view. The integrity of that quality is still present when I play those loops in Live.

Same when I play guitar through something like Guitar Rig or through my pedals. I use Guitar Rig for layering and depth. But when I want something to cut through or have alot of balls I run my guitar through my pedals.

I honestly think only you can answer your question.

Trust your ears.
Just experiment.

leisuremuffin
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Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by leisuremuffin » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:13 am

who wants to see my genitals?


wait, what?


.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

Funkstar De Luxe
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Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by Funkstar De Luxe » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:33 am

Best wat to increase sound quality: use your ears. Really listen to what you are doing, don't just hear it.

simonlb
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:48 pm

Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by simonlb » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:41 am

Tagor wrote:if you sing or play an instrument like guitar or piano or violin
it may be a good adwise to concentrate only on the music, because
you transport the feeling of the music with your handplayed instruments
or transport emotions with voice

BUT

for electronic music the quality of the SOUND itself is a little bit more important
because your synths have to transport all the emotion and feelings, deepness and
individual touch or originalty other musicians apply by their skills with their prefered
instrument.

best example is the role of the bass-sound in modern dance music
apply a low-quality bass to the dancetracks then you can kick most
of them into the trashcan - so still the question for increasing
quality of sound made by humans sitting behind computers may not a bad thing

That's completely different to the stuff you're talking about in your first post though.

Having a good bass sound is a much more noticeable and important thing than insignificant worries about audio engines and digital quality.

Honestly, worrying about 32 vs 64 bit isn't healthy, that's mental energy that you could be using to be creative or learn more about the stuff that actually matters like good sound design and mixing... if this stuff is actually bothering you then I really hope you already know everything there is to know about making great music :)

Funkstar De Luxe
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Location: Scotland
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Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by Funkstar De Luxe » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:44 am

32bit vs. 64bit is purely an academical pursuit. Yes, it increases sound quality, but my an amount that no human can hear, an no monitor can reproduce.

Khazul
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Location: Reading, UK

Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by Khazul » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:40 pm

beatflux wrote:Don't waste ur time on this crap. Just focus on the music.
+1
Nothing to see here - move along!

MacGuffin
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Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by MacGuffin » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:10 pm

some people like to sum their channels in a hardware mixer or summing box, but the advantages of that are debatable.

you already have a very good audio interface... the only other thing I can think of is a power conditioner for recording your hardware synths, maybe a nice preamp.

Don't go for the whole Cubase rewiring madness, it's pointless. Take that time and make sure you have good acoustical treatment in your room, proper bass traps. If you want good sound quality, make sure you can actually hear the difference in your audio.

soultwist
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Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by soultwist » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:26 pm

distaudio wrote:
Just like a movie. You can have all the special effects in the world, but if your plot and story line a shit. It is going to be a flop.
2012.

ZZZZiiiiiiiinnngggg!

3phase
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Re: How to Increase the Sounds Quality ?!

Post by 3phase » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:59 pm

Tagor wrote:Hi Abletonians

There a some Questions bout the right way to get better results.

1. Is it neceseraly recommendet to rewire Live with Cubase to increase the soundquality ?
defently not necessary but when you have an actual cubas and rewire live for mixdown with all channels singel you might have mmore fun in the mixdown just because of propper automation and better plug ins what ultimatly leads to a better mix than doing it just with the live internal plugs..
in case you own a waves suite or uad card with plugs the differnece is maybe jus reduced to the advantages of propper automation... there are however people out there that absolutly belife that cubase sounds better in the mixdown on its own allready...
but as others said..that wont help a bad track to become a good one..so focus on the music..
everything else as an experiment..
2. Is it bad to arrange all in Sessionview - having the vst´s generated the sounds in realtime ?
in the past ableton had so many bugs when rendering down the mix that its actually not recomended to do that if you can avoid it.. on a propper daw the quality you hear should be the same than the one you get when you render it..

some people clain that there is software out there thet renders better than it sounds n realtime.. bt thats not the stuff we wwant to use in the studio..especially when the rendering is buggy..

so short answer no.. in case its yes get a propper daw
2a.Is it better to sample each little peace in process of quality-uplifting - even if
you loose the ability of realtime-changing the sound
this is not uplifting the quality but sometimes its good to bounce what you hear before you have changed too much and its something totaly different.. in the worst case you end with 2 track instead of one ....
3. Is live better to only present the results of a not portable oversized homestudio
or
4. Can even build with Live-only a compareable high Quality-Sound ?
compareable to what? most people have tomatos on the ears anyway...

it wont beat a good sounding pro studio in terms of initial soundquality.. but than.. it dont beats a tascam 4 track portastudio aswell..
5. What about 32 bit and 64 bit Systems and 24bit-Samples with 32bit-Samples,
when great Music even is done with atari or an jaw-harp.
exactly..
however..
even when it eats much diskspace..doing internal bounces and consolidations in 32 bit..
which than is also the setting for recordings than :-/...
will improove the quality of the endresult ..especially when you often bounce and mix stuff..

the difference is however little.. i do 24bit most of the time
6. What is the difference for Quality if i assign for each soundgenerating Plug a separate Channel on my interface. usualy i didnt do that, because of lives routing-abilities.
What may I win to give Bass and Kick a separte Channel on the soundinterface, or do it just waste CPU-Power ?
depends on your interface.. some have a better internal resolution than live others dont..
you have a bigger benefit with analog summing than just using the interfaces dsp..
this of cause depends on the quality of the summing device and your soundcards D/A converters..
but...
this can be the real quality improovement !

people that opose to that either havent tried it with good desks or suming amps..or are 100% digital belivers that dont like analog warmth and smoothness in the mix..so it can be seen as a matter of taste i guess.. there are people that dont like herbs and spices in the food.. you dont envy them..but you have to accept it..


6a. If you give seperate channels, make it sence to route them into an external quality
hardware-mixer to increase the quality of sound and using that in live-situations, or is that not neccesary because Live is standalone allmighty to reach same results ?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts to all or one of this themes

see the above regarding analog summing..depends on the quality of the desk..
the internal mixing of live is theese days so good that you dont have beneifts when sending the channels thru a behringer or mackie desk..

if the desk is named somethig like studer or amek or ssl or neumann or trident or neotek
the benefits will be more than pleasing...

however its not real mixing if you cant go out of the thing with at least 16 channels and better having a good sum compressor..

if you just want to add the extra detail you get by analog summing a highend summing amplefier that equals the quality you get in propper mixing desks might be the better choice...

that was the official version..

the unofficial one is ..there are some cheap desks out there that are not absolutly highend or free of coloration or distortion.. but not named behringer or mackie... sometimes for less than 200 euro.. that are actually so much nicer than mixing in the box..
depends on your taste..
some people dont like spicy food

just try the desk you have around and see how this compares to in the box.. if it sounds better it usually is better
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

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