Effects of deleting warp markers on warped audio

[Sugglew]

Hello there

I'm playing around with recorded instruments and warping them into shape. There are imperfections that occur occasionally and I want to understand what exactly they are.

For example, I take an out of time segment of guitar, insert 10 warp markers and move them such that the track is in time and then find that after the 5th marker the audio warbles a little. So I experiment with moving things around and delete a couple of markers here and there to try get it clean and retain timing but I find that I can only move the warble.

I'd like to think that the piece of audio mathematically just won't fit with the tempo I've chosen and that I just have to move it to a less offensive place or whatever. But there's a part of me that thinks my initial tinkering might be the cause of the warble so I feel like I have to start from scratch and choose my markers carefully to get the most from the track. This kind of thing has made me careful with warping to a fault (not trying things unless I'm at a point I can use the undo button, saving as a new set to experiment etc). OCD stuff. I'm driving myself nuts.

If I delete a warp marker does it really bring things back to the way they were? Or does inserting and moving a warp marker have the potential to permanently damage the audio in a clip? If warping can permanently affect audio does unwarping/resetting warp markers remove this or do I need to drag in the original audio again? What's happening on a 1010011 level here?

[mode:masters]

Warping is non-destructive (i.e. it does not modify the original waveform), and it does the warping realtime.

Removing warp marker should restore the clip back to original, however I suggest trying different warp modes. The newer versions of Live have more warping methods, try Complex or Complex Pro if you have them, they introduce the least amount of artifacts into the sound with aggressive timing changes. Re-pitch is very noticeable and Beats mode will definitely give you the "warbles" as it's primarily designed for beats (obviously).

[luddy]

I have also heard artifacts from warping, even after deleting all the warp markers that I introduced. I generally turn off warping altogether and restore the original timing when that happens. Maybe we've unwittingly done something like moved a beginning marker or something that has a lasting effect?

-Luddy

[Sugglew]

Perhaps luddy. I've changed the start marker in each case where things like this happen.

Thanks for your clear response mode:masters. No more mad and maddening second guessing for me.

[shere.kaan]

I have a related question.

So I'm importing full songs for setting up a DJ session with electronic music. I'm using the complex pro warping method while importing. Usually there is no problem with beat syncing to the global tempo but sometimes it just doesn't work. When the warping is completely off for a track I'll get maybe 100 warp markers. The only way I know how to fix this is to manually go into the editor and double click on each and every warp marker in order to clear them. This is very annoying. Please see my questions below.

1) Is there a command or shortcut to delete all warp markers from a track?
2) Is there a command or shortcut to re-analyze a track for warping? For example, if I want to choose a different warp mode, I only know how to by deleting the track from the library and then changing the warp mode and then re-importing the track.

Thanks in advance.

-Shere Kaan

[3phase]

I have also heard artifacts from warping, even after deleting all the warp markers that I introduced. I generally turn off warping altogether and restore the original timing when that happens. Maybe we've unwittingly done something like moved a beginning marker or something that has a lasting effect?

-Luddy

thats the brown henke dither...

the actual change log indicates that things became better there.. however...

i am not sure if you can get rid of the mighty BHD just with one measure...

we should watch it and anounce any sighting of BHD in versions >= 8.15

[trevorc]

I have a related question.

So I'm importing full songs for setting up a DJ session with electronic music. I'm using the complex pro warping method while importing. Usually there is no problem with beat syncing to the global tempo but sometimes it just doesn't work. When the warping is completely off for a track I'll get maybe 100 warp markers. The only way I know how to fix this is to manually go into the editor and double click on each and every warp marker in order to clear them. This is very annoying. Please see my questions below.

1) Is there a command or shortcut to delete all warp markers from a track?
2) Is there a command or shortcut to re-analyze a track for warping? For example, if I want to choose a different warp mode, I only know how to by deleting the track from the library and then changing the warp mode and then re-importing the track.

click on a warp marker and cmd-a to select all, then delete.

you don't have to reanalyse a track to change the warp mode, just choose a different mode from the drop-down in the clip detail view and resave if you're happy with it.

i can't really tell from your post but are you just accepting live's auto-warp in all cases? it's rarely totally correct in my experience, you always have to adjust to get an accurately warped track.

[shere.kaan]

I have a related question.

So I'm importing full songs for setting up a DJ session with electronic music. I'm using the complex pro warping method while importing. Usually there is no problem with beat syncing to the global tempo but sometimes it just doesn't work. When the warping is completely off for a track I'll get maybe 100 warp markers. The only way I know how to fix this is to manually go into the editor and double click on each and every warp marker in order to clear them. This is very annoying. Please see my questions below.

1) Is there a command or shortcut to delete all warp markers from a track?
2) Is there a command or shortcut to re-analyze a track for warping? For example, if I want to choose a different warp mode, I only know how to by deleting the track from the library and then changing the warp mode and then re-importing the track.

click on a warp marker and cmd-a to select all, then delete.

you don't have to reanalyse a track to change the warp mode, just choose a different mode from the drop-down in the clip detail view and resave if you're happy with it.

i can't really tell from your post but are you just accepting live's auto-warp in all cases? it's rarely totally correct in my experience, you always have to adjust to get an accurately warped track.

Yeah, why not. If I'm going to be always importing tracks into Ableton for DJing. Don't I want the auto-warp on always? I thought this was the intended use: Auto-warping on -> Drag/Drop track into Ableton page -> make warp marker adjustments as necessary.

[trevorc]

sure, as long as you're making your adjustments no probs.

[shere.kaan]

sure, as long as you're making your adjustments no probs.

Is there a better/faster/easier method? Should I just warp every track myself?

[trevorc]

sure, as long as you're making your adjustments no probs.

Is there a better/faster/easier method? Should I just warp every track myself?

auto warp is useful to get you close, but then look at whether your 1.1.1 is correctly set (it usually isn't with auto warp) and place a few warp markers on the grid to get things tight. there are some good tutorials around if you do a quick search. most dance tracks don't need a lot of work.

[willdahbe]

sure, as long as you're making your adjustments no probs.

Is there a better/faster/easier method? Should I just warp every track myself?

Don't let ableton warp the track for you, delete every warp marker except for the first one. set up the first warp marker on the beat you want it to drop in on. right click on the marker and select "start 1.1.0. here" or whatever it says.. then just go halfway down your track and drag the beat to hit on the grid. usually takes about 10 seconds warp a whole track if it's a dance toon..