Several song files sharing same self-contained sounds folder

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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steved
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Several song files sharing same self-contained sounds folder

Post by steved » Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:11 am

When you save a set self-contained - each song file ends up with it's own sounds folder. However - there are times when it would be useful to have several song files referencing the same sounds folder.

I have discovered a way of achieving this - and as with many useful discoveries - it was by accident.

This works on a pc - haven't tried the mac yet.

Make sure the song name is at least 25 characters long - save self contained.

e.g -

Song file - BIG ELECTRONIC STUDIO 100.als

Self contained sounds folder - BIG ELECTRONIC STUDIO 100 sounds

Now - if you create a new song file - BIG ELECTRONIC STUDIO 100 1.als

- the song is linked to the original sounds folder - beacause the first 25 characters are the same.

So you can create as many songs files as you want - and when you save self contained - it just adds files to the original folder.

You can then delete the sounds you are not using from each song file - so the file loads faster (but the sounds are still available in the self contained sounds folder )

You have to just be careful that when you are asked if you want to delete unused files that you decline to.

I don't know if anyone has a better way of managing files - how does everyone else do it ?
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steved
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anyone ?

Post by steved » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:42 pm

Anyone find this method useful ...... ?
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ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:17 pm

nice! thats a good idea... i hope it works on PC... i'll try.
I just recently realized that self-contaning projects is a must. I recently revisited 4 tracks i had been working on a couple of months ago, only to find that the .asd files had somehow gotten disaccoiated from their .wav files. All Warp info was lost and, thus, any further work on the tracks was next to impossible. I think this happened when i reorganized my sample library. Thus, self-containing is essential. But if you have multiple versions of a track it can eat up a lot of space to have each version self-contained. So this trick should be a good way to self-contain and conserve space.
thanks!!

j
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Post by j » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:33 am

:!: neet :!:

Thanks for sharing that.

j

steved
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Location: Lancaster, UK.

warning ....

Post by steved » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:57 am

i don't know what happens to the clip properties of a sound file if is referrenced by different song files. Settings for one song might get overwritten if clip properties were changed and then saved for a later song.

Need to experiment ............
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forge
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Post by forge » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:31 pm

Thanks for that!

Even still, I've been having a real problem with the file handling in Live - I was going to post in the Feature wishlist but my list has been growing so I've been putting it all in a word document....

Personally I think Live needs to somehow keep track of which ALS files are linked to which sounds folders - it could maybe even do it in a text file recording paths and relative ALS files.

I HAAAATE the current system of 'remiove unused samples' because I never have a clue which ones are also in other sets - it's the nature of these things that if you're working on a set and you get a new idea which would be a new track rather than a different mix you save under a different name and then down the line self contain - my 60GB hard drive is constantly getting full because I never know what to delete

Maybe another solution is having some kind of browser that lists all the contained samples AND the tracks they are used in AND other live sets they are used by AND whether the file is duplicated anywhere on your audio drive all right in front of you so you know exactly what to keep or delete.

jethrosipho
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Post by jethrosipho » Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:55 pm

This may be obvious, but it's a good way to handle file handling:

I was saving multiple versions of files, in case I wanted to go back (I have to do a lot of bouncing from midi to deal with CPU intensive VST Instruments). Worked fine, but I had the same problem with lots of folders scattered around, never sure where my audio files were.

Instead of renaming with a .1, .2, etc on the end of the file name, I now "save a copy as" whenever I like -- allowing me to stay in the same song, save it whenever, and "save a copy as" with the date on it, so I know which old version it is. All files stay in the same folder this way, and if you want to clean up later, you can go in and save each old version self contained, burn/back up the results, and keep the cleaned up version, delete the rest.

Once again, ableton has the answer already setup -- J

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:02 pm

So save as stays with the original audio folder, so even when the versions use different audio clips there is only one audio folder. Did I understood it right ?

steved
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Location: Lancaster, UK.

yes

Post by steved » Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:49 pm

Saving the song self contained saves the audio files into the original sounds folder - so even if the songs use different sound files they are all saved in one folder.

This might not always be desirable - but it does work really well if the songs all have the same bpm ( and more so if they are all in the same key ) . If you are working on a number of songs / mixes - especially if you are resampling a lot - you can work with relatively small song files ( that load very quickly ) - while at the same time building up a large pool of clips in the sounds folder. You can drag sounds into a song without the need for any time stretching.

I'm still experimenting - but it seems to work really well. You can quickly switch between different songs - which I was starting to find difficult as song files became larger and larger. ( it was starting to feel like Logic )

This is especially useful as you can only open one song at once.
Last edited by steved on Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jethrosipho
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Post by jethrosipho » Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:57 pm

Yes, it's a combination of these two things. Save set self contained saves all sounds in one folder. As I'm going along, "Save a copy as" saves a copy of the Live file -- it doesn't duplicate the audio itself, just leaves it in the same original folder. For me, it saves having several "sounds" folders, with audio scattered in each, when I'm making new versions of the same song. It's basically saving backups, and allows me to keep everything backed up. Eventually I move everything to a backup drive, and then save the latest version of the song self contained, keeping only what I need on my main drive (laptop).

If you're using some of the same clips in another song, I find it useful to save set self contained, so I don't end up trashing something I might need later in a different song.

steved
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:13 pm
Location: Lancaster, UK.

Post by steved » Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:17 pm

The method I'm describing goes one step further than that outlined by Jethrosipho. All the song files you create are actively linked to the original sounds folder - so as you regularly" save as self contained" in any of the song files you are working in ( which is the safest way of working ) - all the sounds are added to this original folder.
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