OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
xzusa8ky
Posts: 1064
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:48 pm
Location: Vienna

OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by xzusa8ky » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:41 pm

Hallo...

I would like to know if anybody on this board are succesfully running OSX and Live 8 on a PC?

I am thinking about to put a PC together because i can't afford one of the "Big Pro Macs" I would like to have a lot of cpu power like the new i7 980 processors from Intel. Could you please be so kind to give me some good advices on which parts to buy so i can build my own music pc with the Intel i7?

my budget is low! Max 1000,- EU

Thank you very much :D
Bitwig/1.0.5 - Ableton/Live 8 - Apple/MacPro-2.8Ghz-8Core-RAID - Samsung/SM-P2770H 27" - Yamaha/HS80M/HS10W - Behringer/BCR/BCF - Allen & Heath/Xone:3D - Sennheiser/HD25-13 - Native Instruments/Komplete9/Traktor Pro

swishniak
Posts: 1132
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:25 am
Location: Berlin

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by swishniak » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:12 pm

ive seen it done but its buggy / crashy / takes alot of time. .

you can get a decent macbook pro for a little bit over 1000 :|

mrdelurk
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:45 am
Location: Pahoa
Contact:

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by mrdelurk » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:35 am

Yep, I'm running Live on a i7 (920) Hackintosh. Works just like the top of the line Mac. A professional built the rig for me, though, I didn't do it myself.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11118
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:13 am

There are boards for this you know? X86 project is what to google.
If I had extra $$ I might think about this myself. I'm not a fan of breaking any rules etc. but I've given Apple enough $ to justify a frankenmac or two.
Though I don't think I'll ever get around to it. Thing is it kills one nice thing about Macs, that they're well configured for OSX and take years and years to have any issues with
OS updates. :|

mrdelurk
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:45 am
Location: Pahoa
Contact:

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by mrdelurk » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:48 am

Machinesworking wrote:one nice thing about Macs, that they're well configured for OSX and take years and years to have any issues with OS updates. :|
I'm not sure I'd necessarily agree. The one thing that got me going towards HackMacs is exactly that an OS update is just as likely to whack my genuine Mac, these days. (Does Snow Leopard ring a bell, Ableton users? :-) Just off the top of my head.)

Machinesworking
Posts: 11118
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:40 pm

mrdelurk wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:one nice thing about Macs, that they're well configured for OSX and take years and years to have any issues with OS updates. :|
I'm not sure I'd necessarily agree. The one thing that got me going towards HackMacs is exactly that an OS update is just as likely to whack my genuine Mac, these days. (Does Snow Leopard ring a bell, Ableton users? :-) Just off the top of my head.)
You're talking about something different there, Snow Leopard required some applications to rewrite their code for compatibility, sure, but any Intel Mac pretty much can run it without running into the sort of hardware issues that Vista ran into.

jimyson
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:35 pm

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by jimyson » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:18 pm

xzusa8ky wrote:Hallo...

I would like to know if anybody on this board are succesfully running OSX and Live 8 on a PC?

I am thinking about to put a PC together because i can't afford one of the "Big Pro Macs" I would like to have a lot of cpu power like the new i7 980 processors from Intel. Could you please be so kind to give me some good advices on which parts to buy so i can build my own music pc with the Intel i7?

my budget is low! Max 1000,- EU

Thank you very much :D

It's going to be tight as you're budget is quite low. Here is a list I just put together for a friend:


1 Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Model BX80601960 $569.00

1 ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $299.00

1 EVGA 512-P3-N871-AR GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512MB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card $134.99

1 COOLER MASTER Cosmos Pure Black Aluminum / SGCC ATX Full Tower Computer Case $249.99

1 Corsair P128 CMFSSD-128GBG2D 2.5" 128GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $325.00

1 ICY DOCK MB882SP-1S-1B 2.5" to 3.5" SSD & SATA Hard Drive Converter - Black $19.99

1 Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $89.99

1 ASUS Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB ... - OEM $22.99

1 Crucial 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model CT3KIT25664BA1067 $140.99

1 COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-G1 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long life sleeve CPU Cooler $49.99

1 CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply $109.99

1 Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound $9.99

1 Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical $14.99

1 Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboard 2000 $18.99





Total: $2,055.89


All prices of Newegg.com

mrdelurk
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:45 am
Location: Pahoa
Contact:

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by mrdelurk » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:40 pm

Machinesworking wrote:Snow Leopard required some applications to rewrite their code for compatibility, sure, but any Intel Mac pretty much can run it without running into the sort of hardware issues that Vista ran into.
IMHO once Ableton (or its plugin) stops working, it really makes no difference if it did because of a lowly Vista-style hardware issue, or a noble undertaking (a decimal point update in OSX), it's toast, kaputt, goner just the same. Lately, with this PPC to Intel hop, and then successive waves of OSX 10.4, 10.5 and 10.6, with apps not working on one OSX already, but not fully functional on the next yet, it's the biggest bordello out there in Apple's entire history. I'm still trying to cope with the mess by trying to sync my Ableton G5 to my Ableton IntelMac (so that not-UB plugins can remain in use) with nary too great success. So, stuff not working on "official" Macs after an update? Tell me about it.

Khazul
Posts: 3185
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by Khazul » Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:09 am

If you are going to do a hackintosh build - then make sure you check exactly what compoents to buy first otherwise you will end up with a very buggy machine.
Nothing to see here - move along!

friend_kami
Posts: 2255
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:10 pm

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by friend_kami » Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:39 am

Khazul wrote:If you are going to do a hackintosh build - then make sure you check exactly what compoents to buy first otherwise you will end up with a very buggy machine.

not neccessarily, there are tools out there to install vanilla kernels on just about any hardware, you just need to ask google a bit.

thing is that you need patched up kexts of stuff like network and audio etc and that can sometimes be a bit of a pain. i had to flash my graphics card to get full hardware acelleration for example.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11118
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:12 am

mrdelurk wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:Snow Leopard required some applications to rewrite their code for compatibility, sure, but any Intel Mac pretty much can run it without running into the sort of hardware issues that Vista ran into.
IMHO once Ableton (or its plugin) stops working, it really makes no difference if it did because of a lowly Vista-style hardware issue, or a noble undertaking (a decimal point update in OSX), it's toast, kaputt, goner just the same. Lately, with this PPC to Intel hop, and then successive waves of OSX 10.4, 10.5 and 10.6, with apps not working on one OSX already, but not fully functional on the next yet, it's the biggest bordello out there in Apple's entire history. I'm still trying to cope with the mess by trying to sync my Ableton G5 to my Ableton IntelMac (so that not-UB plugins can remain in use) with nary too great success. So, stuff not working on "official" Macs after an update? Tell me about it.
The Intel/PPC jump can't really be counted, it's not an issue of the hardware you buy working but the software manufacturers refusing to port, plus it's an unprecidented move, and probably won't be repeated any time soon. Same with point upgrades, if software breaks it's one thing, but hardware will always work, that, is what I was getting at.
I appreciate the skill it takes to set up a PC with OSX, but I simply don't see how it's going to make life easier for you, or anybody who does it really. It's cheap for sure, and you can design a killer PC etc. but it's far from being a solution to compatibility issues.

Sync is IMO an Ableton issue, Live is the most fickle sequencer I own when it comes to sync.

Rave
Posts: 6152
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:26 am

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by Rave » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:50 am

xzusa8ky wrote:Hallo...

I would like to know if anybody on this board are succesfully running OSX and Live 8 on a PC?

I am thinking about to put a PC together because i can't afford one of the "Big Pro Macs" I would like to have a lot of cpu power like the new i7 980 processors from Intel. Could you please be so kind to give me some good advices on which parts to buy so i can build my own music pc with the Intel i7?

my budget is low! Max 1000,- EU

Thank you very much :D
Get a Mac mini , load it with ram and you are laughing. I use one for production.

Khazul
Posts: 3185
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by Khazul » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:31 am

friend_kami wrote:
Khazul wrote:If you are going to do a hackintosh build - then make sure you check exactly what compoents to buy first otherwise you will end up with a very buggy machine.

not neccessarily, there are tools out there to install vanilla kernels on just about any hardware, you just need to ask google a bit.

thing is that you need patched up kexts of stuff like network and audio etc and that can sometimes be a bit of a pain. i had to flash my graphics card to get full hardware acelleration for example.
Yes - you can get it up and running on any PC these days (even an nvidia nforce chipset with amd cpu), but dont expect *everything* to actually work, never mind work reliably and with a performance that is on par with the same PC running a windows OS.

Generally intel chipsets and CPUs are your best starting point (and people seem to be faring well with X58/i7 from gigabyte and asus), but even that isnt always enough with all the different additional on-board chips for additional essential onboard hardware. So I maintain that if a hackintosh is your aim rather than an after thought - check what works perfectly before you buy any hardware otherwise you Mac OS install will be little more than a curiosity and dont expect relaible low latency use of application like Live etc.

I am tempted to do it on my PC, but I didnt buy for the purpose - was only after I got my PC that I thought about it. Thankfully most of the components in it should be good enough for reliable operation, but even then I am not expecting it to work flawlessly with live and an RME FF400.

Anyway - for the budget, the OP might actually be better off with a mac mini and bootcamping to windows.
Nothing to see here - move along!

friend_kami
Posts: 2255
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:10 pm

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by friend_kami » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:24 am

Khazul wrote:
friend_kami wrote:
Khazul wrote:If you are going to do a hackintosh build - then make sure you check exactly what compoents to buy first otherwise you will end up with a very buggy machine.

not neccessarily, there are tools out there to install vanilla kernels on just about any hardware, you just need to ask google a bit.

thing is that you need patched up kexts of stuff like network and audio etc and that can sometimes be a bit of a pain. i had to flash my graphics card to get full hardware acelleration for example.
Yes - you can get it up and running on any PC these days (even an nvidia nforce chipset with amd cpu), but dont expect *everything* to actually work, never mind work reliably and with a performance that is on par with the same PC running a windows OS.
are you sure?
cause everything is working here except sleep, which is not an issue since its a desktop. infact, sleep works, it just doesnt automount my work drive upon awake. switching it to a sata drive and thats fixed too.

as for performance, it runs incredibly fast, and its a shit computer. not sure where you get the idea that a hackintosh is slower then the same setup running windows because..well.. its not.

heres an Xbench benchmark for you.
as you can see, it lacks somewhere on the cpu but i may remind you that its a 3.2ghz dual core thats.. well..old.
didnt bench my workdrive because its about to get replaced, its a very old IDE drive. clocks in at about 50ish anyways.

anyways;

Code: Select all

Results	98.13
	System Info		
		Xbench Version		1.3
		System Version		10.6.4 (10F569)
		Physical RAM		3584 MB
		Model		iMac9,1
		Drive Type		WDC WD800JD-00MSA1 WDC WD800JD-00MSA1
	CPU Test	80.94	
		GCD Loop	96.36	5.08 Mops/sec
		Floating Point Basic	80.75	1.92 Gflop/sec
		vecLib FFT	48.94	1.61 Gflop/sec
		Floating Point Library	160.71	27.98 Mops/sec
	Thread Test	156.72	
		Computation	143.40	2.91 Mops/sec, 4 threads
		Lock Contention	172.77	7.43 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
	Memory Test	118.29	
		System	116.37	
			Allocate	107.80	395.89 Kalloc/sec
			Fill	130.64	6352.16 MB/sec
			Copy	113.01	2334.11 MB/sec
		Stream	120.28	
			Copy	118.49	2447.40 MB/sec
			Scale	113.40	2342.78 MB/sec
			Add	124.09	2643.33 MB/sec
			Triad	125.97	2694.81 MB/sec
	Quartz Graphics Test	136.92	
		Line	145.47	9.69 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
		Rectangle	124.21	37.08 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
		Circle	163.81	13.35 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
		Bezier	80.66	2.03 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
		Text	323.68	20.25 Kchars/sec
	OpenGL Graphics Test	56.41	
		Spinning Squares	56.41	71.56 frames/sec
	User Interface Test	112.06	
		Elements	112.06	514.28 refresh/sec
some parts on the graphics is lacking too as you can see but yeah. its an old nvidia 7600 GS that i flashed for 512mb bios. given these data id say my hackintosh runs pretty damn smooth.
namely the disk is the problem, it ends up at some 50ish as i said but its about to fail anyday anyways and is about to get replaced.

a full bench leaves me at 68~ score with a faulty slow ide drive.

edit: heres the drive btw.

Code: Select all

Results	60.66	
	System Info		
		Xbench Version		1.3
		System Version		10.6.4 (10F569)
		Physical RAM		3584 MB
		Model		iMac9,1
		Drive Type		WDC WD800JD-00MSA1 WDC WD800JD-00MSA1
	Disk Test	60.66	
		Sequential	93.33	
			Uncached Write	93.41	57.35 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Write	96.40	54.54 MB/sec [256K blocks]
			Uncached Read	77.66	22.73 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Read	112.34	56.46 MB/sec [256K blocks]
		Random	44.93	
			Uncached Write	15.96	1.69 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Write	123.88	39.66 MB/sec [256K blocks]
			Uncached Read	92.75	0.66 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Read	133.17	24.71 MB/sec [256K blocks]
oh, and if its setup correctly with the right kexts its as stable as a real mac.

mrdelurk
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:45 am
Location: Pahoa
Contact:

Re: OSX + Live 8 on Homemade PC?

Post by mrdelurk » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:51 pm

Machinesworking wrote:The Intel/PPC jump can't really be counted, it's not an issue of the hardware you buy working
My point was, I don't care what the reason is when things stop working; if they stopped working, that's it, we have a problem. So the Intel/PPC upgrade does count - as the mother of all upgrade issues, in fact. No other upgrade caused $10K's worth of my software to go in limbo before.
Last edited by mrdelurk on Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply