bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
eyeknow
Posts: 5822
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:16 am

Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by eyeknow » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:49 am

Neckro!

But to answer your question...even if there is a difference, I don't care.

jasper
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:57 am

Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by jasper » Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:46 pm

ovorigin wrote:+1

While I dont have a full understanding of what exactly live is doing to the sound, when the same tracks are put into Logic the difference is VERY noticeable.

The same with live input, Logic gives a bigger clearer sound, not a very technical description but when demonstrated to just about anyone it is immediately apparent.
It used to be commonly known as an "audio engine" or a "summing algorithm"...
Each DAW has its own summing algorithm, and yes: Logic's is huge, spacious and
has an aural depth (You can hear the quiet stuff amidst the louder elements in a mix,
it is a pristine crisp audio quality with depth.
It is definitely obvious when working with the two.

you will never achieve that mixing with Ableton Live.
Everything arriving at this DAW's summing bus is smashed right up into the front
of the aural space and it sounds like mp3's

and you are also right about the "dead last" thing. It's a common discussion in studios about
the audio engines and headroom and spaciousness in each DAW.

Pro tools is usually cited as top of the list.
Then Logic, then cubase. FL studio has a characteristic sum and you can get space out of it.
Live is last.
I'm sorry, I use live because dragging and dropping plugins and arranging is easy.
But when it comes to rendering tracks, getting space in a mix and presence,
Live sounds like a low bandwidth MP3 and I can't get that spaciousness I get with logic.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:05 pm

This thread is now officially declared as Troll infested. Proceed only at your own peril.
In Internet slang, a troll (/?tro?l/, /?tr?l/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]…

Two studies published in 2013 and 2014 have found that people who are identified as trolls tend to have dark personality traits and show signs of sadism, antisocial behavior, psychopathy, and machiavellianism.[37][38]
Wikipedia definition: Troll (Internet)
Make some music!

jasper
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:57 am

Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by jasper » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:41 pm

Sorry. You're right. I am dark, and I have failed.
I've been trying for years to make a clean sounding mix
and I cant.
And I watch as everybody else is doing it effortlessly.
Knowledge I have, practice I have too.
But no matter what knowledge I employ,
no matter how I process each individual instrument
No matter what software I use, I have never gotten
even one song to sound clear and good.
Even when I experiement with ONE KICK and ONE BASS using
my (14 year old) event studio monitors.
Car stereo tests show that everything I play on spotify radio for example
Is yes louder...even though my mix sounds decent in my room and it is
limited at -.1 all that...friends tracks, tracks done by people who started a year ago...
My stuff sucks. And I'm bitter because of it. I failed at it.
I got great at music theory and songwriting and became totally discouraged from music all but completely because my mixes are horrible.
I have tried EVERYTHING I've seen on respected tutorials
on mixing, for YEARS (probably for the same number of years as many of you have been alive,lol)

I am what you don't want to become.


It has made me into a dark, pathetic, chain smoking, angry man with no hope of ever making a good sounding track.
I am what you do not want to become.
I'm sorry for venting it on these forums.

Stace30
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: Isle of Beatz

Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by Stace30 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:49 pm

Hey Jasper some good lyrics there! you want to make a track out of that!! :D
Live 10 Suite, M4L, MPC TOUCH - MPC software v2.7, Reason 4, Komplete 11, i7 Laptop, 12g Ram, Win 10, Adam A7's & Genelec 8010's - Joined Forum in 2006.

re:dream
Posts: 4562
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
Location: Hoerikwaggo's sunset side...
Contact:

Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by re:dream » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:16 pm

jasper wrote:
ovorigin wrote:+1

While I dont have a full understanding of what exactly live is doing to the sound, when the same tracks are put into Logic the difference is VERY noticeable.

The same with live input, Logic gives a bigger clearer sound, not a very technical description but when demonstrated to just about anyone it is immediately apparent.
It used to be commonly known as an "audio engine" or a "summing algorithm"...
Each DAW has its own summing algorithm, and yes: Logic's is huge, spacious and
has an aural depth (You can hear the quiet stuff amidst the louder elements in a mix,
it is a pristine crisp audio quality with depth.
It is definitely obvious when working with the two.

you will never achieve that mixing with Ableton Live.
Everything arriving at this DAW's summing bus is smashed right up into the front
of the aural space and it sounds like mp3's

and you are also right about the "dead last" thing. It's a common discussion in studios about
the audio engines and headroom and spaciousness in each DAW.

Pro tools is usually cited as top of the list.
Then Logic, then cubase. FL studio has a characteristic sum and you can get space out of it.
Live is last.
I'm sorry, I use live because dragging and dropping plugins and arranging is easy.
But when it comes to rendering tracks, getting space in a mix and presence,
Live sounds like a low bandwidth MP3 and I can't get that spaciousness I get with logic.
You need to spend a couple thousand dollars on gold plated cables to really hear the difference though. And render everything at 192 Khz

eyeknow
Posts: 5822
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:16 am

Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by eyeknow » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:31 pm

You ever notice how people go after the freshest kill they can?

maxsavage22
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:23 pm

Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by maxsavage22 » Tue May 05, 2015 5:33 pm

i been an ableton guy for some time.. I'm proficient in all daws now though over time. and i can say with 1111110000000 percent that ableton DOES sound much worse than logic or FL. same sounds. different sound. it lacks the energy.... its actually very easy for me to hear it now.... i still love to chop things up in ableton... dj... but the sound is 110 percent not the same. FL and Logic and protools and cubase and reason DO sound better and mix down better... all the people who say otherwise have poor ears and are just confused over the dollars cuz they are stuck with one daw. i have them all. ableton sound doesn't come close to the others. tho it is still my goto because its my comfort zone.

granted
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:18 pm

Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by granted » Wed May 06, 2015 1:58 am

Oh for chrysakes! The purpose of all this music boils down to a scenario where two people mutually enjoying the music will get drunk and meet. They will then leave the club, go home and have consensual sex. That's it. If the people meet then you have done your job as the music maker. All the bit rates, algorithms, and sonic clarity mean jack shite.
Eyes on the god damn prize!


Mac Guy: 99% of all music is made on a Mac. 8O
PC Guy: Yeah, but 99% of all music sucks. :roll:

H20nly
Posts: 15844
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by H20nly » Wed May 06, 2015 3:02 pm

:lol:

Finally, the truth...

re:dream
Posts: 4562
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
Location: Hoerikwaggo's sunset side...
Contact:

Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by re:dream » Thu May 07, 2015 6:14 pm

Just two? I've always hoped for my tracks to inspire polymorphously perverse group orgies.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by Stromkraft » Fri May 08, 2015 10:57 pm

maxsavage22 wrote:i been an ableton guy for some time.. I'm proficient in all daws now though over time. and i can say with 1111110000000 percent that ableton DOES sound much worse than logic or FL.

yet, none of that crap from a 4 post guy will survive reality: a null test. Get that wad out of your ears and smoke less dope!
Last edited by Stromkraft on Fri May 08, 2015 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by Stromkraft » Fri May 08, 2015 11:07 pm

A DIY whiner template:
I know for sure that Live is inferior soundwise because when I export my favorite flap loop from [DAW inserted here] to 128kbps MP3, import this to Live, compress the hell out of it and push the master fader into red, it sounds really bad! This is Ableton's fault!

I know this because I'm a sound engineer. I have all DAWs downloaded to my computer.
Translation: If you have a problem with how your tracks sound, look yourself in the mirror. That's the problem you see right there staring back at your ugly mug.
Make some music!

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