bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Poster
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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by Poster » Mon May 09, 2011 10:20 pm

Tone Deft wrote:I've been using this at work
http://www.simplynoise.com/
I'd love one for the forum.
I bet you it will cancel out anything 3phoo says..

Tone Deft
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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by Tone Deft » Mon May 09, 2011 10:27 pm

Poster wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:I've been using this at work
http://www.simplynoise.com/
I'd love one for the forum.
I bet you it will cancel out anything 3phoo says..
or just scream louder.

there have been many weirdos to grace the Ableton forum, that guy... wow.
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At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
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nylarch
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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by nylarch » Mon May 09, 2011 10:29 pm

sound quality is such an overrated topic, really..
very true
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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by Forge. » Tue May 10, 2011 10:08 am

this should be a sticky on this forum.

dutifully blogged: http://www.abletontrainer.com/core/?p=316

mr.ergonomics
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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by mr.ergonomics » Tue May 10, 2011 12:51 pm

I cant resist to answer one more time here. I definitely not saying that this rumour is wrong, I can't proof that. I even had the impression too sometimes. The delay compensation isn't perfect and ableton is not sample accurate, I even have given some examples in the past for that.

But every time I have done a proper test (AxB, phase cancelation) regarding a sound quality issue it showed me that my perception regarding the SQ was just wrong. I would be very happy if someone could show a possible issue here, I'm not a blind ableton defender, but as long as no one could show something I'm tired to read about that topic.

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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by h4nc0 » Tue May 10, 2011 2:34 pm

abletontrainer.com wrote:
this should be a sticky on this forum.

dutifully blogged: http://www.abletontrainer.com/core/?p=316
funny. I just linked it on one of the forums I visit like 5 mins ago and come and read your post. It's just tiring to see so much bulls&%t going on and on for years I just stopped bothering. :)

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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by 3phase » Tue May 10, 2011 3:28 pm

it rather funny how much the tomato on the ear is in fashion theese days.
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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by Forge. » Wed May 11, 2011 4:56 am

mr.ergonomics wrote:I cant resist to answer one more time here. I definitely not saying that this rumour is wrong, I can't proof that. I even had the impression too sometimes. The delay compensation isn't perfect and ableton is not sample accurate, I even have given some examples in the past for that.

But every time I have done a proper test (AxB, phase cancelation) regarding a sound quality issue it showed me that my perception regarding the SQ was just wrong. I would be very happy if someone could show a possible issue here, I'm not a blind ableton defender, but as long as no one could show something I'm tired to read about that topic.
did you watch that youtube? it puts forward some very good reasons why it's all bollocks

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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by crumhorn » Wed May 11, 2011 10:36 am

3phase wrote:...tomato on the ear ....

????? :?
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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by mr.ergonomics » Wed May 11, 2011 11:03 am

abletontrainer.com wrote:
mr.ergonomics wrote:I cant resist to answer one more time here. I definitely not saying that this rumour is wrong, I can't proof that. I even had the impression too sometimes. The delay compensation isn't perfect and ableton is not sample accurate, I even have given some examples in the past for that.

But every time I have done a proper test (AxB, phase cancelation) regarding a sound quality issue it showed me that my perception regarding the SQ was just wrong. I would be very happy if someone could show a possible issue here, I'm not a blind ableton defender, but as long as no one could show something I'm tired to read about that topic.
did you watch that youtube? it puts forward some very good reasons why it's all bollocks
yeah i did know that video before and i'm a scientist person so perception bias etc. is a well known thing for me. but one should be careful (I'm not meaning you with this :wink: ) not to change to the opposite and mark all perception as bollocks. it's really easy just test it.

best regards

rcpunker
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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by rcpunker » Wed May 11, 2011 12:49 pm

The only way onto give Ableton Live audio quality recognition will be settled when all on the majority of MAJOR recording studios replace it to Pro Tools I guess.

To me, I can no tell if it's good nor bad. To me it's fine. But, I guess a POPULARITY CONTEST is the only way to end of this debate.

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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by 3phase » Wed May 11, 2011 1:01 pm

mr.ergonomics wrote:
abletontrainer.com wrote:
mr.ergonomics wrote:I cant resist to answer one more time here. I definitely not saying that this rumour is wrong, I can't proof that. I even had the impression too sometimes. The delay compensation isn't perfect and ableton is not sample accurate, I even have given some examples in the past for that.

But every time I have done a proper test (AxB, phase cancelation) regarding a sound quality issue it showed me that my perception regarding the SQ was just wrong. I would be very happy if someone could show a possible issue here, I'm not a blind ableton defender, but as long as no one could show something I'm tired to read about that topic.
did you watch that youtube? it puts forward some very good reasons why it's all bollocks
yeah i did know that video before and i'm a scientist person so perception bias etc. is a well known thing for me. but one should be careful (I'm not meaning you with this :wink: ) not to change to the opposite and mark all perception as bollocks. it's really easy just test it.

best regards
exactly.. tesst it yourself and tell yourself afterwards that you are just negativly biased because its easier to trust ableton statements than just your own senses.
The comparison with behringer comes in mind again..from theire technical data they are perfect..a flat response from 20 to 20 k ..low noise.. low distortion values..and so they state in theiere promotion..studio quality pro products..


do you know anybody that shifts the benringer bad sound myth to biased listening?

after your little youtube clip of mr wiener feat poppy scrum you defently shouldnt waste any money in expensiv audio gear anymore..

I just did new test that shows the ableton sound pretty well..

logic versus live.. 3 tracks in a mix.. bass drum.. rest of drum..strings.. level realtions vari.. its a test in the mix no a/b comparison...

than you insert a high quality pre and an hardware compressor via the external fx plug into the master bus..


And than you play a while with that in logic..and in live.. adjusting the levels of the external instrument plug to match the bypass level.. and try various mixes whatever.. call it not scientivic
dont bother too much withthe levels..just keep them all unity gain... make the compressor work more or less,,

Than ask yourself... is the external hardware fx for 3k worth the hazzle or can justa compressor plug do the same fx


so the question is not wether daw is better..just is the external hardwareas digital insert worth the hazzle?

Is it beneficial to insert highend audio gear? Yes or no and if yes..to what degree.. a woooo factor..or..sound ok factor.. or its different but not better factor?


The result of this test safes the ableton owner a lot of money, Its exactly like working with a behringer desk there some higend outboard compressors dont make a big difference either.

But it shows the weakness that is hidden there in the mixbus pretty well. or is it a weakness in the audio interface comunication? rme on a mac should fx quite a lot of users.. maybe them are the ones that belive that the ableton sound is inferior while all the soundblaster guys enjoy the pristine quality as they find on any other daw?
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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by Greeg » Wed May 11, 2011 4:06 pm

If you don't like the sound then switch to another DAW. How hard is it ?

I don't care about sound quality. I use reference files and as long my productions sound as well as reference file I'm satisfied. People are listening music on youTube, iphones and all other crap - do you seriously believe that such hyphotetical sound quality difference matters ? For me, Live as "creativity booster" is much more important aspect than mythical sound quality. It's not 80' anymore. It's not "make the cleanest sound possible" fest anymore...

It's boring to read the same person in every topic complaining about sound quality. Do yourself a favour and switch DAW or maybe create your own, perfect DAW. Or switch the boring, bad sounding grey GUI :D
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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by 3dot... » Wed May 11, 2011 4:27 pm

++++1111
Image

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Re: bad ableton sound rumour - just caught myself :-)

Post by H20nly » Wed May 11, 2011 4:44 pm

+ another 1

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