Windows vs. Mac
Windows vs. Mac
Has anyone used both the Mac platform version of Live and the PC version? The reason I ask is that I've had horrendous results on the PC platform, and I've toyed with the idea of a Mac. I'd rather not shell out the cash for a new Mac, but are my PC platform results normal (crash, crash, crash)? I have a P3 1.3Ghz with an Audigy Platnum now.
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Alex Reynolds
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:48 am
- Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
- Contact:
You're trading speed for stability, moving Live from PC to Mac.
Some make the case for trading the robustness of OS X for the speed of running Live on a PC, because Live is a CPU pig on a Mac, even before you run any clips or effects.
What is more important to you is something you'll need to decide. There have been numerous threads on this forum on the experiences of users of both platforms.
-Alex
Some make the case for trading the robustness of OS X for the speed of running Live on a PC, because Live is a CPU pig on a Mac, even before you run any clips or effects.
What is more important to you is something you'll need to decide. There have been numerous threads on this forum on the experiences of users of both platforms.
-Alex
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xydeas@yahoo.de
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 8:19 am
- Location: Thessaloniki - Greece
altivec for the g4 processor!
ok, maybe the the next live update supports altivec for the g4 processor! and then the speed of ableton´s live will change dramatically. if this happens the mac is the better solution (stability, speed).
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Guest
please don't kid yourself and listen to the people claiming that macs are more stable than pc's. That will be your first mistake if you do, and it can lead to others by shifting your focus to the wrong place than it should be within this issue.
this is the truth, the issues of power and stability are separate. first the mechanics, the pc's are faster, more powerful. this does not make them better, it depends on how you interface with the paticular machine you are using by that i mean it depends on more than just the power and speed of the computer, but asthetics and how other features work on the computer you have, even if you are choosing between different models on the same platform this would still apply like, you will feel diff about using a cube, imac, or g4tower, or power book, ibook, and these are all on the same platform.
now about pc stability, if you know what you are doing your pc can be as stable as any mac, go to "macmusic.org" it's a mac only site and read through the whole site, you will see people using logic, digital performer, protools, all manner of programs and setups with all kinds of macs from destops to laptops, all having problems, and not just problems but the same problems you might encounter on pc's. slow response, crashes, freezes, crackles and pops in the audio, latencey issues and on and on. this is not because the mac is worse, its because the stability is due more
to the knowledge of the user, most computer problems are user errors, so a mac user or pc user who knows what she or he is doing will have less problems than someone who doesn't, its' as simple as that and if you want to have an enriching computer recording experience the first thing you have to learn is that it's your responsiblity.
many mac users will tell you mac makes quality parts and mac makes their os so the integration is better or what ever, remember that when you see all of those mac people having problems. their are more pc manufacturers, this doesn't mean anything except that you have more to choose from, if you choose a pc take responsiblity and the opportunity of having more choice and make sure you get quality parts, if you choose a mac know that you don't have as much choice and still try to choose the best system for your way of doing things, then after you choose your computer whichever platform you use take on the attitude that the computer is not a genie in a bottle to do your thinking for you, it is a tool and a powerful one but like any tool the most important part is the knowledge of the user, as you learn more about configuring on either platform and about the right parts you need for your paticular application you will have a better and better recording experience. there are people on both platforms who have not had a problem in a year, even 3 years if you can believe it (its true) and these people know what they are doing.
don't worry about what you hear pro musicians saying. pro musicians know music, and music programs, and the art of recording, but that has nothing to do with knowing quality parts and propper maintenance of your computer, and most of them pay other people to (the ones who know what they are doing) to keep their systems running properly.
that is the truth, check it out. people telling you something contrary to that are speaking out of their ass, trust me...
peace and happy learning
this is the truth, the issues of power and stability are separate. first the mechanics, the pc's are faster, more powerful. this does not make them better, it depends on how you interface with the paticular machine you are using by that i mean it depends on more than just the power and speed of the computer, but asthetics and how other features work on the computer you have, even if you are choosing between different models on the same platform this would still apply like, you will feel diff about using a cube, imac, or g4tower, or power book, ibook, and these are all on the same platform.
now about pc stability, if you know what you are doing your pc can be as stable as any mac, go to "macmusic.org" it's a mac only site and read through the whole site, you will see people using logic, digital performer, protools, all manner of programs and setups with all kinds of macs from destops to laptops, all having problems, and not just problems but the same problems you might encounter on pc's. slow response, crashes, freezes, crackles and pops in the audio, latencey issues and on and on. this is not because the mac is worse, its because the stability is due more
to the knowledge of the user, most computer problems are user errors, so a mac user or pc user who knows what she or he is doing will have less problems than someone who doesn't, its' as simple as that and if you want to have an enriching computer recording experience the first thing you have to learn is that it's your responsiblity.
many mac users will tell you mac makes quality parts and mac makes their os so the integration is better or what ever, remember that when you see all of those mac people having problems. their are more pc manufacturers, this doesn't mean anything except that you have more to choose from, if you choose a pc take responsiblity and the opportunity of having more choice and make sure you get quality parts, if you choose a mac know that you don't have as much choice and still try to choose the best system for your way of doing things, then after you choose your computer whichever platform you use take on the attitude that the computer is not a genie in a bottle to do your thinking for you, it is a tool and a powerful one but like any tool the most important part is the knowledge of the user, as you learn more about configuring on either platform and about the right parts you need for your paticular application you will have a better and better recording experience. there are people on both platforms who have not had a problem in a year, even 3 years if you can believe it (its true) and these people know what they are doing.
don't worry about what you hear pro musicians saying. pro musicians know music, and music programs, and the art of recording, but that has nothing to do with knowing quality parts and propper maintenance of your computer, and most of them pay other people to (the ones who know what they are doing) to keep their systems running properly.
that is the truth, check it out. people telling you something contrary to that are speaking out of their ass, trust me...
peace and happy learning
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Guest
hey geargasm.
You know you want a mac! I can sense it. The reason you want a mac is because they are just so much cooler than pc's :). If you want a reason to switch, I'll give it to you in one word --> "Mac OS X". That shit is stable! I don't care what 'Guest' (if that's even his/her real name) says, Mac OS X is way more stable than any Windows OS. I rarely reboot -- maybe once a week at most -- I just close the lid on my powerbook and go. I have never experienced a system crash -- ever! Sure, the odd app will "quit unexpectedly", but that's the app's fault, not the OS's, and if it happens you just start the app again. There's enough software out there for Mac OS X (I use Live and Logic mainly, but there's Reason, Cubase SX, etc...), and that snowball is just getting started -- MAX/MSP soon! Same with hardware. And I have never heard of sub-millisecond latency on any PC! But that, my friend, is what I get with my powerbook and Motu 828 (an unfairly maligned audio interface IMHO). Remember the hassle of adjusting the latency compensation for your MIDI? No longer necessary.
Don't get me started on why Mac OS X is great for non-music stuff too...
You know you want a mac! I can sense it. The reason you want a mac is because they are just so much cooler than pc's :). If you want a reason to switch, I'll give it to you in one word --> "Mac OS X". That shit is stable! I don't care what 'Guest' (if that's even his/her real name) says, Mac OS X is way more stable than any Windows OS. I rarely reboot -- maybe once a week at most -- I just close the lid on my powerbook and go. I have never experienced a system crash -- ever! Sure, the odd app will "quit unexpectedly", but that's the app's fault, not the OS's, and if it happens you just start the app again. There's enough software out there for Mac OS X (I use Live and Logic mainly, but there's Reason, Cubase SX, etc...), and that snowball is just getting started -- MAX/MSP soon! Same with hardware. And I have never heard of sub-millisecond latency on any PC! But that, my friend, is what I get with my powerbook and Motu 828 (an unfairly maligned audio interface IMHO). Remember the hassle of adjusting the latency compensation for your MIDI? No longer necessary.
Don't get me started on why Mac OS X is great for non-music stuff too...
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Alex Reynolds
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:48 am
- Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
- Contact:
Ecchh..
Part of my job is to fix software problems, and Windows machines become consistently flaky, if they don't start that way.
We don't skimp on cheap hardware, either, so that's not an excuse.
Mac OS 9 and Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP are flaky. Linux, Solaris, IRIX and Mac OS X are mostly bulletproof. That's what I do for a living and that's my experience.
Don't listen to the cowardly anonymous loser calling himself "Guest" and read the threads that have been posted here, instead.
-Alex
We don't skimp on cheap hardware, either, so that's not an excuse.
Mac OS 9 and Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP are flaky. Linux, Solaris, IRIX and Mac OS X are mostly bulletproof. That's what I do for a living and that's my experience.
Don't listen to the cowardly anonymous loser calling himself "Guest" and read the threads that have been posted here, instead.
-Alex
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Guest 2
Everything "guest" said was eminently reasonable to me.
About OS stability - XP does not crash. I can't get it to. I've tried. The MAC vs Windows stability thing is pretty much old news. MACers had a point when Win95/98 was out saying that MAC OS was better. But with a *properly setup* 2K or XP you don't have to worry about the OS - it is solid. MAC is probably a better turn-key solution, but if you setup the OS properly XP = OS X.
The only reasons I can think of for buying a MAC over a PC is (1). you have yuppy aesthetic tastes (2) you like to spend more money on a similar product (3) you can't do without those few MAC-only audio apps.
About OS stability - XP does not crash. I can't get it to. I've tried. The MAC vs Windows stability thing is pretty much old news. MACers had a point when Win95/98 was out saying that MAC OS was better. But with a *properly setup* 2K or XP you don't have to worry about the OS - it is solid. MAC is probably a better turn-key solution, but if you setup the OS properly XP = OS X.
The only reasons I can think of for buying a MAC over a PC is (1). you have yuppy aesthetic tastes (2) you like to spend more money on a similar product (3) you can't do without those few MAC-only audio apps.
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Guest
See what I'm talking about, this is rediculous. I post a truthful post for Geargasm and this is how you dickheads respond. I use both platforms and don't have a problem with either. you mac users need to go to church, get a girlfriend, find a real religion and stop worshiping your damn
computer. try getting a life that doesn't include trying to supress people. It's really sad and I have no doubt that you have an apple stuck up your ass.
you ought to be trying to give some constructive help to this person, not trying to get them to join your retarded version of starwars.
Like I said Geargasm go to the mac sites and read up about the problems with osx, and you will see that these knuckleheads have apples for brains.
but don't let them turn you off of getting a mac if that is what you want, not all mac users are idiots like these. while you're at it do a search on this site and read about the problems that they themselves have had with osx, and remember in the long run the stability will come from you not from the computer.
computer. try getting a life that doesn't include trying to supress people. It's really sad and I have no doubt that you have an apple stuck up your ass.
you ought to be trying to give some constructive help to this person, not trying to get them to join your retarded version of starwars.
Like I said Geargasm go to the mac sites and read up about the problems with osx, and you will see that these knuckleheads have apples for brains.
but don't let them turn you off of getting a mac if that is what you want, not all mac users are idiots like these. while you're at it do a search on this site and read about the problems that they themselves have had with osx, and remember in the long run the stability will come from you not from the computer.
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Hexadecimal
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 2:59 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
- Contact:
Geargasm,
Your best bet to figure out which platform is to figure out what software and devices you with to run, and how much you can afford to pay. Yes, this takes more time and is less thirlling than religious arguments, but you'll be much happier with your hardware for having done it.
The stability argument is a wash as both Windows XP and Mac OS X are infinitely more stable than their predecessors, and the primary danger to the stability of both are bad hardware drivers. Sound Blaster devices, for example, have a history of very buggy and troublesome drivers for audio creation.
What audio hardware do you want to use - as in, what do you need it to do and how much can you afford to pay?
What apps do you want to run?
Loop-based tools have generally been more advanced on Windows platforms (Acid and Fruity Loops, for example). But excellent multi-tracking, MIDI editing, CD burning, exists for both.
Which user interface is most intuitive for you? XP is still driving me nuts (I like the W2K GUI), but I cringed every time I used Mac's MDI-style interface which many people swear by. Just preference and habit.
I don't pose these questions to make your life more complicated, but the clearer your answers to these questions, the more clear the platform answer will become.
Computers, software, and audio devices are all just tools, and the measure of a tool is whether is works for *you*.
Hexadecimal
www.freesidemusic.com
Your best bet to figure out which platform is to figure out what software and devices you with to run, and how much you can afford to pay. Yes, this takes more time and is less thirlling than religious arguments, but you'll be much happier with your hardware for having done it.
The stability argument is a wash as both Windows XP and Mac OS X are infinitely more stable than their predecessors, and the primary danger to the stability of both are bad hardware drivers. Sound Blaster devices, for example, have a history of very buggy and troublesome drivers for audio creation.
What audio hardware do you want to use - as in, what do you need it to do and how much can you afford to pay?
What apps do you want to run?
Loop-based tools have generally been more advanced on Windows platforms (Acid and Fruity Loops, for example). But excellent multi-tracking, MIDI editing, CD burning, exists for both.
Which user interface is most intuitive for you? XP is still driving me nuts (I like the W2K GUI), but I cringed every time I used Mac's MDI-style interface which many people swear by. Just preference and habit.
I don't pose these questions to make your life more complicated, but the clearer your answers to these questions, the more clear the platform answer will become.
Computers, software, and audio devices are all just tools, and the measure of a tool is whether is works for *you*.
Hexadecimal
www.freesidemusic.com
I've had crash-free performance on XP. I think as far as pc's go, XP is a huge step in the right direction. I don't doubt that OS X is bulletproof, but XP itself has been so good that my occasional thoughts of 'maybe I should get a Mac' have all gone away. I think before you get a Mac, rid yourself of the Audigy and see if things change.
Arp Laszlo
arphaus.com
Dell 6000d: 2.0ghz Pentium 760 | 1gb DDR2 ram
Echo Indigo DJ | Korg microKONTROL | faded black t-shirt emblazoned with 'Detroit' in gothic type
arphaus.com
Dell 6000d: 2.0ghz Pentium 760 | 1gb DDR2 ram
Echo Indigo DJ | Korg microKONTROL | faded black t-shirt emblazoned with 'Detroit' in gothic type
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dirtystudios
- Posts: 1196
- Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:28 am
go ahead and use your logic and well thought out arguments, but the fact is, pc users are just jealous because at the end of the day my tibook and aqua interface still looks cooler than any computer product they could ever own. so to them i say, with all due respect, neener.
just thought i'd fan the flames...
k
just thought i'd fan the flames...
k
Aesthetically, the Tibooks had been the bomb, until I saw the latest Toshiba Satellite. It fits my aesthetic needs more as 1) it's dark-colored and 2) there's no glowing ad on the back.
Still, I'd change an audio interface before spending the money on a new machine.
Still, I'd change an audio interface before spending the money on a new machine.
Arp Laszlo
arphaus.com
Dell 6000d: 2.0ghz Pentium 760 | 1gb DDR2 ram
Echo Indigo DJ | Korg microKONTROL | faded black t-shirt emblazoned with 'Detroit' in gothic type
arphaus.com
Dell 6000d: 2.0ghz Pentium 760 | 1gb DDR2 ram
Echo Indigo DJ | Korg microKONTROL | faded black t-shirt emblazoned with 'Detroit' in gothic type