how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
3phase
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how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by 3phase » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:37 pm

In the past that was a pretty limited thing in regards of stability... how is the actual state.. i am on 170 scenes wright now tedency rising... and 8 groups with 4 to 8 tracks each.. so up to 64 tracks...

i ve a gig on the weekend and as usual is do a fresh set now.. compiling bit and pieces..

so in the moment ist a bit messy..

what do you think? better go 8 tracks 40 scenes and reload on stage a view times or again taking the risk having it all in one set...

since the unstabilitys of L8 i am pretty much at the same point regarding my preperations than june 2009 :-/
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Pitch Black
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by Pitch Black » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:28 pm

110 tracks x 250 scenes (3.4GB samples) works well for me on a 2006 MBP 2.33GHz with 3GB of RAM.

10ms Audio Buffer <-- this is as low as I can get it reliably for this showload - any smaller than this and I get clicks when new scenes are triggered.

Live 8.0.9 / OSX10.5.8 / Fireface400

No heavy-duty "virtual" instruments (such as Analog/Operator/Tension/Electric etc) in the set, but lots of Simplers and Samplers. No 3rd party plugs whatsoever.
MBP i5 2.53GHz | OSX 10.12.6 | Live10.0.4 | Fireface800 | Push 2
https://soundcloud.com/paddyfree

3phase
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by 3phase » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:46 pm

ok., thnx...

your machine is faster than mine... but i wont go above the 64 tracks... and probaly will only use a 4 front piano as virtual instrument...
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Pitch Black
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by Pitch Black » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:56 pm

I think the machine speed wouldn't make much difference... Don't know much about macbook vs MBP in terms of internal bus-speeds/bandwidths etc... but our setups are very simillar otherwise! :D

The big variable for me was buffer size - I'd like to get it smaller (it still feels a bit sludgey when playing fast perc parts) but I can't for this set. Other less demanding showloads I can get down to 6ms.

3phase
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by 3phase » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:10 pm

6ms with just outputs enabled and no plug in buffer?
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Pitch Black
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by Pitch Black » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:16 pm

Yeah, 1 x stereo output enabled / no inputs / Plugin buffer size: As Audio Buffer

Tarekith
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by Tarekith » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:51 pm

The Pitch Black live set is an amazingly huge project, when you showed me that in Seattle I was like "holy cow that's a lot of tracks".

3phase
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by 3phase » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:29 am

probably he likes to have own fx settings in each song..so he needs a set of track for each of them....

would be quite handy if ther would be the option to seperate the mix er from the rest and store its status with all plugs involved.. . and controler assignemnets of cause..


i just suffer badly that controler assigenments cant be exported..

ok.. theese user remote scripts. never worked with them sofar.. maybe tonight is the night???
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Pitch Black
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by Pitch Black » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:07 pm

Tarekith wrote:The Pitch Black live set is an amazingly huge project, when you showed me that in Seattle I was like "holy cow that's a lot of tracks".
:mrgreen:

It keeps everything separately dub-able (the clip tracks feed thru 12 subgroups) and many clip tracks have their own fx embedded so they're wet when they get to the subgroup - woof

and it keeps everything adjustable - once stuff gets submixed too much you lose the freedom to mutate just. one. part.

0fps
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by 0fps » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:36 pm

I have run 20 audio tracks with EQ-8 (high quality), reverb, saturator, corpus
4 instances of N.I.s Massive
4 instances of N.I.s Absynth
16 rewire tracks
8 audio tracks with external inputs monitorring and processing audio via plug-in
8 return tracks with reverbs and various vsts

MacPro 2.66 (1st generation)/4G RAM/ Motu Traveler @ 96Khz with 256ms buffer size
Live 8 Suite, MacPro@2.66 Quad/4G RAM,MacBook@2.00 DualCore/2G RAM, Motu Traveler, TC Powercore, Korg MS200R, Waldorf Blofeld, Akai APC 40, M-Audio Axiom25, Motu Digital Performer

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outershpongolia
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by outershpongolia » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:37 pm

Track 1 - drum rack with about 14 samples in it, just swooshes and such.

Tracks 2 thru 5 - audio tracks with a rack on each - beat repeat, filter, super looper (thanks tarekith), and some other fun stuff..

Track 6 has a rack adapted for bass loops

Track 7 has a rack adapted for percussion loops

Track 8 is a group of 2 tracks, another percussion track, and then Battery 3.. (couldn't find a simple way to freeze-flatten without all of my loops sounding like poop - I think i have to freeze-flatten in the tempo that the loops are in - meaning I'd have to do it for each track one by one - pain the arse)..

So 9 tracks - 10 if you include the MIDI track sending notes to "the FINGER" on my master channel.. 8)

250+ scenes - 3.3 GB of samples - NEED MORE RAM!!! ARRGGHGHHHHHh - runs pretty nicely tho on a MacBookPro 2GB RAM.

outershpongolia
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by outershpongolia » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:41 pm

3phase wrote:ok.. theese user remote scripts. never worked with them sofar.. maybe tonight is the night???
My beef is this: I know you can do tons of stuff with python scripts, but why are the simple txt file scripts so limited?

No mutes, send C, etcc...

ton
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by ton » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:04 am

Pitch Black wrote: It keeps everything separately dub-able (the clip tracks feed thru 12 subgroups) and many clip tracks have their own fx embedded so they're wet when they get to the subgroup - woof
Do you have anywhere a visual diagram of this setup maybe? I would like to think through your setup, and why we have to have so many tracks for example. Do you use only audio tracks, no midi tracks?

ton
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by ton » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:19 am

outershpongolia wrote:My beef is this: I know you can do tons of stuff with python scripts, but why are the simple txt file scripts so limited?

No mutes, send C, etcc...
Check this: http://remotescripts.blogspot.com/2010/ ... asses.html and the download section here: http://remotescripts.blogspot.com/p/support-files.html

Yeah, it would be better if the simple txt files could do much more. As this is not the case, just try the above link which explains quite in detail the Live-API and python, using two nice examples ProjectX/Y and nanoPad.

Imo you can adapt and improve Live's interface experience mostly by improving your "control system", meaning using Live-API and python. Actually this is the most important part, Live can already play synthesizers and samples, great. Now you only need to be able to control all those thousands of possibilities in a way YOU want. Those control systems should be also complex but without forcing you doing hundreds of manual mouse klick/mapping work. There should be better ways. It seems the best way is so far Live-API + python.

btw. is the name iControl already patented? :lol: or youControl?

pepezabala
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Re: how many tracks and scenes can you run without trouble?

Post by pepezabala » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:42 am

my big liveset contains 8 audiotracks, three instrument tracks (drumrack, and instrument rack containing mostly simplers/samplers, electric) and roughly 250 scenes. Maybe half of that grid is filled with clips. Lots of my songs do not have more than 4 channels audio (beats, bass, melody, efx

I am running that on a macbook 2ghz, 4gb ram, I route a microphone and an electric guitar live through that set, using loopers sometimes. motu ultralite as soundcard.

that usually works fine.

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