Fix the sync issues now !! yes or no ?

[Tone Deft]

there is plenty of latency on abletons midi... jsut try to play an external midi instrument via live.. its disgusting...

I can play my midi guitar through Live, very playable. any slop in a setup like that is really annoying.

you don't know how to set up midi, you just blame Live for your problems.

seriously, you're a synth oriented guy and you can't play Live's synths without annoying latency? you say you've been around this stuff for years and years and you have this level of fail?

[Poster]

you don't know how to set up midi, you just blame Live for your problems.

imo those aren't real life problems but a matter of him setting too high standards..
computers and music production will always involve latency but setting things up the right way it's all very much acceptable..

[3phase]

there is plenty of latency on abletons midi... jsut try to play an external midi instrument via live.. its disgusting...

I can play my midi guitar through Live, very playable. any slop in a setup like that is really annoying.

you don't know how to set up midi, you just blame Live for your problems.

tone deffy.. i was a payed midi expert in the 1980´s allready.. i worked with a big chunk of the exsisting soft and hardware sequencers on the planet.. i started before midi was there.. and went the whole way with it up to now.. belife me.. i know exactly how to set up midi and what performance one can expect, i mesured timigs of computers to proove problems to emagic years before ablton even showed up...

.. its great for you that you dont have higher demands..amd that you are happy with any crappy implementation..as many ableton customers.. however that is not the refference for future development. you was eeven claiming that L8 dont has prblems while the ceo allready stated himself that there are some..

sorry man--play your guitars and leave the details of seqeuncer design to the experts..

[3phase]

you don't know how to set up midi, you just blame Live for your problems.

imo those aren't real life problems but a matter of him setting too high standards..
computers and music production will always involve latency but setting things up the right way it's all very much acceptable..

no man.. its not too high standards.. its all well possible when you do it wright and have the wright attitude towards your product..

when this thing is ment tobe a musical instrument and not a pocket calculator with sound generation it has to be able to compete with hardware devices.. we are not in the 1990s anmore..this is the 21th century.. the world of tomorow..

its time to become at least as god as than the ancient gear.. its really time..

your are blessed that yur demands are so little..but belive me..even you will like it once they have fixed it...

[WaveRider]

modern macs have an allmost as good clock as ataris..plus higher bandwith and more midi ports.

so the actual state of apples is that midi is better than on an atari.. since 2 years ... the very first versions of os x was als very good..but after the purchase of logic the mid went down the drain for mysterous reasons..

but since the later 10.4 versions everything is fine again..0,16 ms clock jitter measured on various interfaces...
agains the 0,1 ms jitter of an atari...

thats reasonable good... actually before we was dealing with 2 ms jitter... in the pc world sometimes even more...

didnt had the cahnce to check windows 7 machines yet.. but actually noone ever mentioned any improovements..

the difference on the mac was so good that you easily heard it first ...i measured after i got currious why the 808 sounded so groovy form one day to the other..

interesting post, mac folks should be happy. And yes the difference in the groove is enormous with a very precise clock pulses and no jitter in the midi etc.. that's how a simple beat gets you going. Otherwise simple repetition is painful. The 808 is a prime exemple of good timing.. MPCs are there too.

Well I am just starting to use FSK sync (recorded on an audio track) and I will try overdubs. I have high hopes of getting great sync soon

[3phase]

can some seasoned producers please help me with the fanboys? they belive its all strange 3phase phantasies..

the poll shows a demand allready..when it would be only me missing something i doubt that 70% would vote for fixes..
or?

[Tone Deft]

there is plenty of latency on abletons midi... jsut try to play an external midi instrument via live.. its disgusting...

I can play my midi guitar through Live, very playable. any slop in a setup like that is really annoying.

you don't know how to set up midi, you just blame Live for your problems.

tone deffy.. i was a payed midi expert in the 1980´s allready.. i worked with a big chunk of the exsisting soft and hardware sequencers on the planet.. i started before midi was there.. and went the whole way with it up to now.. belife me.. i know exactly how to set up midi and what performance one can expect, i mesured timigs of computers to proove problems to emagic years before ablton even showed up...

.. its great for you that you dont have higher demands..amd that you are happy with any crappy implementation..as many ableton customers.. however that is not the refference for future development. you was eeven claiming that L8 dont has prblems while the ceo allready stated himself that there are some..

sorry man--play your guitars and leave the details of seqeuncer design to the experts..

I genuinely don't give a shit what your background is.

what does matter are your words you write today. saying that Live's midi is unplayable is a statement that's very easy to dispute. we can all set up our systems with low enough latency to play a synth in Live with acceptable latency. even hardware synths have 10mS of latency.

I have written that I have had very few problems, I've also written many times that other users do have problems. you just cherry pick what you want to make personal attacks on other people, that's pathetic.

you act like you're so superior when in fact you're the village idiot around here. you're a joke man, no cred. you play your cards way too hard and fall on your ass every single time. whatever cred you might have has long ago been blown away by your aggressive overstatement of your problems with Live. you're just a loud voice, a loud, arrogant, ignorant voice.


yeah, that's some poll, I heard Sound On Sound is going to quote you. what a fucktard...

[3phase]

modern macs have an allmost as good clock as ataris..plus higher bandwith and more midi ports.

so the actual state of apples is that midi is better than on an atari.. since 2 years ... the very first versions of os x was als very good..but after the purchase of logic the mid went down the drain for mysterous reasons..

but since the later 10.4 versions everything is fine again..0,16 ms clock jitter measured on various interfaces...
agains the 0,1 ms jitter of an atari...

thats reasonable good... actually before we was dealing with 2 ms jitter... in the pc world sometimes even more...

didnt had the cahnce to check windows 7 machines yet.. but actually noone ever mentioned any improovements..

the difference on the mac was so good that you easily heard it first ...i measured after i got currious why the 808 sounded so groovy form one day to the other..

interesting post, mac folks should be happy. And yes the difference in the groove is enormous with a very precise clock pulses and no jitter in the midi etc.. that's how a simple beat gets you going. Otherwise simple repetition is painful. The 808 is a prime exemple of good timing.. MPCs are there too.

Well I am just starting to use FSK sync (recorded on an audio track) and I will try overdubs. I have high hopes of getting great sync soon

there is one guy in belin that has build a custom sync device that allows mega precise clocks on pc aswell.. but its a pricy unit.

but can do a lot more ..midi /fsk sync..shifted timings on 8 different ports.. restart on any port like on mung sync.

ther are external solutions.. however.. its time that ableton adresses all the details .. syncing is important..and even when it will stay more problematic on pc ther are improovements possible there too..

my logic 5.5 on windows has a factor 2 better midi timing clock than ableton live..

And regarding the mac side... there are many ablteon customers on mac.. i dont know how the % is .. in any case its a very differnt picture to the office software world.. i would assume that it well can be 50% on mac..
only aleton knows that..

however.. its not totally unthinkable that windows will follow apples example and srengthen the multi media abilitys of the os...

better algorythms are no waste even when the actual windows os cant make max benefit from them.

[3phase]

sorry tone deffy.. when you allways sound like a newbie regarding daw and midi questions i cant take you serious..

and of cause abletons midi is nt so unusable anymore as it was 3 years ago.. but ther are scenarios wher it just cant work without the aid of external soft or hardware.. and that is not an opttimal state for the most expensiv daw on the market..

however..its not the most expensiv daw.. its a pricy one... but not very expensiv..

look at nuendo and you know what a pricy daw is.. however.. they started at a similar time than live... and by now they are defently on the more advanced state..they are getting a industry standard in the movie industry..or better already are one..

it´s anyway not a price related thing.. its essential fuctionality that is missing..
and even when some guys like you dont have the demand to propper sync with other musicans or hardware devices..
i have.. and many others do aswell.

And..the tendecy is rising... ther is defently a trend twoards band work in the electronic scene...

the demad will gro..oposite to the demand regarding serato.. that defenetly will shrink in the next years...

its pretty much a waste of time that tehy waste theire resources there... if they can do serato bridge they can do proper sync aswell

[Poster]

your are blessed that yur demands are so little..but belive me..even you will like it once they have fixed it...

as I said: either too high standards on your side or you're just a trouble magnet..

I have had maybe one crash since L8.0 and am perfectly able to sync hardware synths with a very acceptable latency..

Why should we still believe you after a good year of pointing fingers at Ableton?
If I can set things up working ok, you can, but you just refuse to, or whatever..

[Tone Deft]

3phase - we can throw lame insults at each other all day, sorry about my part in that, it's a waste of energy. if I may ask one clarifying question. are you saying that playing a soft synth in Live is impossible because of the latency?

[3phase]

guy.. i dont talk about soft synths... i talk about the interface to the hardware world..

of cause live is not worse than any other daw when you just work in the box.. its the interface to the hardware world or other laptops that is not well working..

and i never sayed that its not possible to play a synth..its just no fun when the latency is higher than 6 ms.. what is a risky value for stage work allready...

same to external clock sync.. it works.. but the timing is not ürecise and its not groovy.. so its no fun aswell..

and whan you need timecode send to another device live really cant do it at all...

I started this thread because its hard to belife that live is abl to sync to serato before you can sync life with life..

thats pretty lame in a way.. that clearly marks the point where they have us waiting too long for propper sync..

[Tone Deft]

but even hardware synths when played standalone can have 10mS of latency.

if I play my guitar next to the amp and move back 10 feet it doesn't affect me.

[rikhyray]

3phase - we can throw lame insults at each other all day, sorry about my part in that, it's a waste of energy. if I may ask one clarifying question. are you saying that playing a soft synth in Live is impossible because of the latency?

Your enthusiasm for Live might be seen as charming by some nad silly by others. However your crusade against 3phase makes you look silly and 100% dilettant as far as any serious midi related music production aspect is concerned.
Midi was and is the weakest side of Ableton Live. Serious musicians who use Live extensively or exclusively have their own, various ways of overcoming various midi issues but it does not mean they do not exist, neither that these are minor.
Louder you scream about the subject sillier you look.
I can understand your love and dedication to Ableton, it is really cute even though a bit childlish but your chamcha attitude brings no benefit to you, the Ableton company neither anyone else.

[Tone Deft]

rikhyray - don't even get me started on you. most of your technical posts are seriously wrong. 3phase can handle himself, bugger off. I apologized to him for going off, fuck off with your insults.

edit - yes, midi is Live's weak point. assholes like yourself don't read when I say that people have issues and midi sync is broken for many people. I'm not defending Live, that would be dumb, I want it to improve, why wouldn't I? don't bother to answer that, I usually skip your posts.