does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
alex.the.forge
Posts: 1424
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:29 am

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by alex.the.forge » Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:45 pm

3phase wrote:….well, pretty much everything 3phase has said up to this point.
Is it bred into every German at school that you must uphold the DIN German Engineering standard at all times?

Between you and Timur, you have written several volumes on all the errors and miscalculations of Ableton AG from 1999 to present day.

Do you get some kind of federal grant for it?

Oh but think if you had put all of that energy into a proposal for a PhD on something worthwhile!

you could have between you established exactly what phase cancellation on an internet forum proves!

It's an issue of our times that must be addressed.

leedsquietman
Posts: 6659
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:56 am
Location: greater toronto area

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by leedsquietman » Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:54 pm

No one is forced at gunpoint or by threat of gang rape to update to the most recent DAW versions MANDATORILY.

I had Cubase SX3 for a good while (prob 3.5 years) and skipped C4 because of bugginess and arrogance at things such as dropping DX plugin support and not delivering SX 3.1.2 as promised, but re-entered the fold at Cubase 5 (happy that I did too). I am still on Live 7 because it works and am not going to buy Live 8 even if I win the lottery, we'll see how L9 pans out feature wise and stability wise, but I can see myself being happy with Cubase 5.5 and Live 7 for a good while yet.

There'd have to be some amazing developments allied to rock solid stability for me to early adopt whichever DAW I go for next.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by 3dot... » Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:11 pm

Tone Deft wrote: hey, at least we got a VOCODER!! :roll:
:roll: is spot on.. although a very nice one... I actually have no need for it.. never used it on a track
it's such an exotic effect..
:lol:

Corpus is great ... hats off for AAS !
Image

Machinesworking
Posts: 11102
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:59 pm

Angstrom wrote: Another thing occurs to me: what would we all agree was a good compensation?
Some people would like a reverb, but I doubt that the Altiverb owners would be that bothered!
You can't please everyone.
MOTU have added mass new features to DP 7.1 and .2 in updates, these are no charge updates that added crazy amounts of features.
I'm absolutely certain that some of them were on users minds before being introduced! :)
This was without a particularly buggy version of 7.0, It seems to the loyal users who dealt with issues in 6, they kind of paid back by having a solid 7 and freebies.
I'm OK with that, Ableton need to eat, and some of the stabilizing might be expensive man hours to code, so 9 comes out and they add mass value etc.
It's not what people want to hear, but like I said, they need to eat, and it's not like people aren't able to use Live 8 to make music.

Unfortunately in a real sense it's impossible to do this with 8 as the possibility of bugs, and the possibility that the remaining users affected with bugs go ballistic over it is too great. :?

Angstrom
Posts: 14665
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by Angstrom » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:14 pm

My guess is they will consider an addition of features, rather than put all their eggs into the Live 9 basket.

They are know the score, they may have made a few mistakes recently but they aren't evil. They value their customers and consider themselves close to them. I've met a good few of the Ableton team, and none of them punched me in the head when I told them (at length) everything I thought they should be doing, and where I thought they were going wrong. Anyone who can tolerate me for several hours in self-righteous mood is obviously close to sainthood.

I just can't see how they can deliver "value" to all the varied customers.
EG: the recent PartnerInstruments compilation thing, that was a give-away wasn't it?
I didn't even download it because it all just sounded like the usual boring pre-packaged bleeps and bloops. it has no value to me at all (I'm sure other people thought it was great though)

How to achieve the aim of placating all the Live8 users before Live 9?
A few new shiny things = not everyone is satisfied
A lot of new shiny things = a lot of things to go wrong

I don't envy them

Bizon
Posts: 345
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:51 pm
Location: Calgary

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by Bizon » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:22 pm

I might as well weigh in on the issue.

I believe Ableton should take the Microsoft approach. Acknowledge that Ableton 8 was crap (which they did) and release Ableton 9 making sure its stable. Then, stop even Acknowledging that Ableton 8 was a real release and just look at it as a mistake. We can argue all day whether 8 worked fine or not but then you will come to the same conclusion that Microsoft came to with Vista; its too late, public opinion has already been made and the train has left the station sorta-speak. Even if they made 8 perfect, most people would still have the opinion that its crap simply because all they see is negative threads on the forum. I say simply move on and forget Ableton 8 but 9 better be good.

The only thing I am still ticked off at is the infamous share feature. We actually did pay for this item but saw nothing in return. For this, they should and will do something for the people who paid for it.

In my mind, they should lower the price for Ableton 9 for all Ableton 8 users. This is the only thing that makes sense. If they give us a free plug-in, its kind of useless because all who buy 9 will still get it. Its not like the 8 users would get a secret plug what would never be released to anyone else so then we are back at the fact that they must just lower the price of 9 for 8 users. Or they could just give us the shaft and simply ask “what share feature, don’t know what you’re talking about”.

headquest
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:32 am
Location: UK

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by headquest » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:36 pm

I guess that they *could* consider making Live 9 a FREE upgrade for those who bought Live 8... while those of us who have stuck with Live 7 would pay the usual (high) upgrade price, bringing some new revenue back. I agree that perhaps they should give up on Live 8 and move straight on, making sure Live 9 is absolutely rock solid.
iMac Retina 4K 3.3Ghz i7, 16Gb RAM
Live Suite 9.7.1 + Reason 9.1 + Pianoteq 5 + Sibelius 8.5

Listen on Soundcloud

glitchrock-buddha
Posts: 4357
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:29 am
Location: The Ableton Live Forum

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:47 pm

None of this will ever happen. Ableton will release Live 9 at some point, for around the same upgrade price as it always is, with a bunch of new features, some of which will be user requested, some being cool tricks thought up by the Abes. There will be no new features in point releases, they will all come with the paid upgrade to 9. No one will be "compensated" for anything. Live 8 was buggy, but has gotten steadily better, just like half of the other DAW versions ever released.

It'll be the same cycle next time, but hopefully not quite as rushed and not so many collaborations going on at the same time. You won't get new features for free. You won't get a discount to 9 because you own 8. Or am I being too much of a realist?
Professional Shark Jumper.

Tone Deft
Posts: 23565
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: SF, CA

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by Tone Deft » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:52 pm

^ I'm less skeptical, they pretty regularly hold sales on their plug ins just after people buy them.

:idea: a free runtime could be a win/win. users get more widgets, Ableton expands the interest in one of their products. but that's a whole 'nother series of whine threads.

all I know is that Ableton is German and therefore inherently insane. take 3phase, Timur and SubFunk, all completely off their rockers.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

Piplodocus
Posts: 791
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:48 pm
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by Piplodocus » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:52 pm

I'm not sure they necessarily owe us something big since it works for many people, but I do feel a bit peeved about Share. I'd prefer a slightly cheaper upgrade too at the next version. Obviously they should keep up the good bug-fixing work, but overall I'm more interested in some kind of new 64-bit version that could harness OpenCL, that's written to be more stable from the ground up, and with better workflow tweaks rather than give me free stuff that I don't use or load it up with more stuff I tinker about with but invariably don't use much. I've still never used the vocoder or looper. I got the Suite 8 upgrade mostly for group tracks and share (and the groove engine; but it never really works for me, only makes my grooves sound more out of time!!!), and the general expectation that things would work better or have easier workflow.

As it turns out, about £150 to be able to group tracks was rather a little high considering my usage patterns!
Image
Mac OSX: 10.8.2, Live Suite: 9.0.2 (64-bit) Live user since:v5 (Above now has an APC40, 8GB RAM and a Diezel 212F Cab but currently too lazy to re-draw it all)

3phase
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by 3phase » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:55 pm

alex.the.forge wrote:
3phase wrote:….well, pretty much everything 3phase has said up to this point.
Is it bred into every German at school that you must uphold the DIN German Engineering standard at all times?

Between you and Timur, you have written several volumes on all the errors and miscalculations of Ableton AG from 1999 to present day.

Do you get some kind of federal grant for it?

Oh but think if you had put all of that energy into a proposal for a PhD on something worthwhile!

you could have between you established exactly what phase cancellation on an internet forum proves!

It's an issue of our times that must be addressed.

oh adressed stupid phase cancelation test on single files as just a publicity fraud..

that ableton mentioned this kind of fraud in theire manual is actually not really beneficial for theire immage..

but come on.. at least i dont wasted time to become a rectified rainer to suck out money off the pockets of newbies for things the friendly musican was doing for free in the past...

doesnt that suck somehow?
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

mr.ergonomics
Posts: 914
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:12 am

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by mr.ergonomics » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:07 pm

Tone Deft wrote:^
all I know is that Ableton is German and therefore inherently insane. take 3phase, Timur and SubFunk, all completely off their rockers.
haha

photonal
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:54 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by photonal » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:21 pm

pepezabala wrote:Hey, I am a big fanboy, but Live crashes too often on me as well. Deleting clips in arrangement shouldn't make live crash. and yes, I have sent in crashlogs. and the bugs are often enough not reproducable, grmff.

I would really appreciate a big price drop for Live8-owners on the next upgrade (maybe get it for free?). And also some more updates on live8 to get it stable.

But still a great program, and no, it didn't crash on me during gigs. I wouldn't want to perform with anything else that I know of.
Actually Live 7 owners (and less) who didn't upgrade should be getting the next update free because we were smart enough to hold back rather than feed the upgrade monster; especially as the upgrade price went up(!!).
This corresponding drop in dollar income might have helped to wake up Ableton a little and concentrate on getting a decent reliable product out rather than the annual 'time-for-an-upgrade'.

I love using Live but the fact that version 8's search function is still crap, and midi control data is not displayed in arrange or the fact that Live crashes when trying to record a lot of midi data (which Logic Pro 'could' record!) I decided
to hold off the upgrade.

I doubt Ableton will make the same mistake with '9' as it did with '8'.

Pasha
Posts: 3238
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:45 pm
Location: Lost Island
Contact:

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by Pasha » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:29 pm

For me no crashes since day 1 with 8.0.4.
I guess Max for Live was the bloated addition (ok crucify me)
The slim Live 8 project turned into a bloat of features (too much).
However I do not feel like I want/need a refund of any kind.
I was using Live 8 smoothly, without taking ALL the upgrades
but only what I thought were safe for me after testing.
Now running 8.1.3 on Snow Leopard, all ok.

- Best
- Pasha
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

Usedtobe
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by Usedtobe » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:11 pm

are you suckas all running on PCs or something?

ableton most certainly does not owe us anything, we owe them our souls for the opportunity to make music in wonderfully open ways.

sucks yall are having problems, maybe get a macbook. I have had almost zero issues, only once did my undo.cfg file get corrupted, and abe support helped me fix it in a day.

my point is that it's not a problem with the product. it's your system or maybe the way that you are building sets. (seriously seriously not hatin' on anyone) I use it every day, most of the time keeping it open in the background with 12 other windows doing net surfing and adobe cs4 and all that, and my macbook is 4 years old.

Post Reply