does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Bizon
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by Bizon » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:32 pm

Usedtobe wrote:are you suckas all running on PCs or something?

ableton most certainly does not owe us anything, we owe them our souls for the opportunity to make music in wonderfully open ways.

sucks yall are having problems, maybe get a macbook. I have had almost zero issues, only once did my undo.cfg file get corrupted, and abe support helped me fix it in a day.

my point is that it's not a problem with the product. it's your system or maybe the way that you are building sets. (seriously seriously not hatin' on anyone) I use it every day, most of the time keeping it open in the background with 12 other windows doing net surfing and adobe cs4 and all that, and my macbook is 4 years old.
LOL, I will have 2 of whatever you are smoking.

I have a macbook and I am in no way a power user and the thing crashes on me, albeit not every day but crashing nonetheless. This is not a mac vs. pc argument, it seems to crash for independent of the system they use.

agent314
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by agent314 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:43 pm

I'm running Suite 8.1 on a PC, and I have no issues with it. I've had a couple of crashes, but they were old plugins, which I'm not about to blame Ableton for.

Jekblad
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by Jekblad » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:08 pm

i have issues running several native plugs. guitar rig specifically, the latest version. That makes me sad, but when i delete all the plugs the set goes back to working great.
2.4 ghz Macbook Pro 8gb RAM, SSD, Live 9 Suite, Puremagnetik, Minimal Talent

leedsquietman
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by leedsquietman » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:14 pm

There are plenty of people having issues with Live on Mac (possibly more than PC given that on this forum it seems to be about 60-40 in favour of Mac). Just because something runs OK for some people, it's pretty obvious this release has been the buggiest of all. The CEO of the company even publicly apologised in this forum for the unsatisfactory performance and you can't even argue about stuff like Share, which was withdrawn because it wasn't working out.

Suckaz is the lame fanboiz who keep their heads in the sand. Nothing is perfect and never will be, there will always be bugs in software and some affected, but more people (way more) have been affected by Live 8 than previous versions. They are still releasing BETA bug fixes ferchrissakes ....

Here is the Quality message again for Usedtobe, if he can actually READ
Some of you have experienced and reported problems with Live 8 several months ago that we have still failed to fix. This is both painful and necessary for us to discuss. We owe you sincere apologies, as well as an explanation and outlook for the future.

Ableton values quality over innovation. Our engineers will stop whatever they are doing to fix a bug when they become aware of it. They must, however, rely on a process that prepares the incoming information and funnels it to them appropriately. Establishing and maintaining this process is the responsibility of management — particularly us, Bernd and Gerhard — and this is where things have gone wrong while we let our attention divert to ambitious new projects.

Our apologies also extend to both the Ableton developers and tech support colleagues because they want to be proud of software and service that users love.

We have now decided to:

* suspend all development towards new features while the whole team joins forces to address the current issues. This effort is open ended and will result in a free Live 8 update;
* make process changes to prevent similar situations from happening in the future.

We hope this plan finds your understanding and agreement. We’d like to wish you a very happy holiday season and a wonderful 2010!

Gerhard Behles, CEO
Bernd Roggendorf, CTO
These messages were never issued with Live 7, which was buggy until about 7.0.9 and then pretty stable thereafter. It has very little to do with having a Mac or PC :roll:

BTW - Guitar Rig 2 and 4 work fine for me in Live. Yes, plugins can affect stability, but a lot of people having issues with L8 aren't even running any 3rd party plugs ...
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by smaucher » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:32 pm

I'm on PC and L8 + Guitar Rig 4 as well as many, many other VTSs work great together. in fact, there are some things I'd like to see in the product and the first really stable version for me was 8.1.3, but hey! nothing is perfect.

keep on whining - I'll keep on making music and having fun /w L8.
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alex.the.forge
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by alex.the.forge » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:32 am

clearly it has problems for some and still sometimes crashes for no apparent reason for me - but only very occasionally since Live 8.1.5 …..

It's a tough call because it is also the version I am most happy with to date - I mean there are features that have improved my workflow no end and I've actually enjoyed making music with it more than any previous version.

I spent a whole day recording a conference with it on 2 separate macbooks on the weekend, one was my partners macbook which is about 3 or 4 years old, and mine is about a year old and I think I haven't updated it to 8.1.5 on hers yet. I was a little anxious at first, hence the reason I took hers for a backup copy and with that kind of job you can't fix it up later…. anyway, both did the job without skipping a beat from 8.30 until 16.00 without a single problem, and I spent a day editing and rendering and still not a single problem.

Granted this isn't exactly a demanding task, but it involved Live working non stop all day, then editing large files with external Waves plug-ins. I have had problems with plug-ins like Waves in the past, but it was fine.

There are so many possible use cases and different combinations of hardware/Operating system etc etc out there that it's very difficult to pin down exactly where these problems are until they happen

I'm interested, has everyone posting in this thread about discounted versions and freebies actually reported their bugs?

One of the benefits of software is that you can have a direct input into the quality of it and you can actually have a new revision presented to you that fixes your problem and makes it go away forever. You could think of that as a kind of warranty that never expires. try doing that with your monitors after the warranty runs out…. for example

They've even added the bug reporter which makes it dead easy to report after a crash. I've noticed the quality improve for me since they added that, because it's much easier to report. Every now and then when I open it up and the bug reporter appears then I can go to the folder and send all of the files that have built up over months at once because the size of them is now small enough to fit several in an email. this is a vast improvement on how it used to be where the Live packs were huge and just got added to the desktop so that if you had a few of them you'd have to go through and work out which one it was, then figure out a way of uploading it etc…...

Machinesworking
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:25 am

alex.the.forge wrote: One of the benefits of software is that you can have a direct input into the quality of it and you can actually have a new revision presented to you that fixes your problem and makes it go away forever. You could think of that as a kind of warranty that never expires. try doing that with your monitors after the warranty runs out…. for example
Of course there's a expiration date, it's called the new version. Maybe one last bug fix after 9 comes out, but certainly not a year after 9 comes out. Sounds about the same as hardware doesn't it? A year and a half solid warranty and maybe that in spotty warranty service.

Anyway I really do hope 9 is solid and Ableton land on their feet. Them Cockus and MOTU are the only companies I know making a DAW that isn't owned by a big corporate monster of a company.

alex.the.forge
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by alex.the.forge » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:53 am

Machinesworking wrote:
alex.the.forge wrote: One of the benefits of software is that you can have a direct input into the quality of it and you can actually have a new revision presented to you that fixes your problem and makes it go away forever. You could think of that as a kind of warranty that never expires. try doing that with your monitors after the warranty runs out…. for example
Of course there's a expiration date, it's called the new version. Maybe one last bug fix after 9 comes out, but certainly not a year after 9 comes out. Sounds about the same as hardware doesn't it? A year and a half solid warranty and maybe that in spotty warranty service.

Anyway I really do hope 9 is solid and Ableton land on their feet. Them Cockus and MOTU are the only companies I know making a DAW that isn't owned by a big corporate monster of a company.
bug fixes have come out after the next version is out, maybe not version 6, but 7 has

I think as long as people report bugs they will get fixed. There are still loads of people using Live 7 who haven't upgraded yet…. if Live 7 was still having problems we'd be hearing about it a lot

Machinesworking
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:20 am

alex.the.forge wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:
alex.the.forge wrote: One of the benefits of software is that you can have a direct input into the quality of it and you can actually have a new revision presented to you that fixes your problem and makes it go away forever. You could think of that as a kind of warranty that never expires. try doing that with your monitors after the warranty runs out…. for example
Of course there's a expiration date, it's called the new version. Maybe one last bug fix after 9 comes out, but certainly not a year after 9 comes out. Sounds about the same as hardware doesn't it? A year and a half solid warranty and maybe that in spotty warranty service.

Anyway I really do hope 9 is solid and Ableton land on their feet. Them Cockus and MOTU are the only companies I know making a DAW that isn't owned by a big corporate monster of a company.
bug fixes have come out after the next version is out, maybe not version 6, but 7 has

I think as long as people report bugs they will get fixed. There are still loads of people using Live 7 who haven't upgraded yet…. if Live 7 was still having problems we'd be hearing about it a lot
Yeah there was one last bug fix update to 7 after 8 came out. No, I doubt bugs people would report now would be addressed in 7. Likely they would tell you it was/is being addressed in 8, otherwise it can really get crazy. Think about all past versions etc. Face it, the warranty on software is about as good as hardware, agreed with the rest of what you said, but that part was wishful thinking at best.

H20nly
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by H20nly » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:49 am

I think what Ableton actually "owes" us is something they want for themselves... a quality app. nothing more nothing less.

anything else is extra and would be nice... such as good reverb, but as was already mentioned even that doesn't work for everybody because of what they might have in their toolbox already.

I hate that Ableton have the issues they're having, but I think they're far from having to negotiate selling the company. Its one bad rev and, also as mentioned before, they're not the first company to go through this... nor will they be the last. What we need to hope for is that its the last time for them...

I want to see a kick ass Live 9... in due time. In the meantime, I hope they stay the course and make 8 everything it was originally intended to be. This is what they implied they are doing with the quality statement and like so many things in life, setting a wrong right is both very fulfilling and ultimately liberating.
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by gosinisha » Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:14 am

here is a customer that comes from a legit cubase crap and is verry happy with live. live has been very stable for me for long time now, actually since version 5. and as we mention version 8; since i upgraded from 8.0.3 no problems at all. you should take a look your hardware to see possible mistakes, minimise the hardware integrated in live, check what have you modified in your os or switch to pc. great job ableton, don`t change nothing. just keep up the good job!
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dolphie
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by dolphie » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:37 am

well i been running live nearly a week non stop and not a single crash

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:23 pm

dolphie wrote:well i been running live nearly a week non stop and not a single crash
To add a little more positive into the thread, I must say that it has been quite some time since I've had a crash as well. And I used to get at least three a night when I went out to jam with friends (where I often do a lot of changing instruments and presets etc.).
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auto-lock
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by auto-lock » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:55 pm

i think ableton owes us something for share, i bought 8 for share... how fucking stupid is that!!!

leedsquietman
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Re: does ableton owe us something for a crap ver.8?

Post by leedsquietman » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:19 pm

Perhaps if they re-introduce Share, they should make it free for 12 months as some type of compensation for the people who bought 8 (many looking forward to using that feature). It's a bit like buying a car advertised with anti-lock brakes, and then the company withdraws the anti-lock brakes - it's still functional but less safe in an accident and something which may have influenced a buying decision.

As for features at .2 .5 or whatever versions, many companies such as Cakewalk, MOTU and Steinberg actually do add in features. Here's some examples of what got added in Cubase since C4

4.1 - sidechaining, free routing and 50 other minor GUI or workflow tweaks
4.3 - draggable inserts
4.5 - BETA version of 64 bit Cubase

Cubase 5.5 - new sound library for Groove Agent One, vastly improved CPU efficiency on the Reverence convolution reverb, a new timestretching algorithm, improved media bay and project manager.

All of which came for free - Ableton are not only the most expensive DAW, but just about one of the only DAW companies who doesn't introduce new features at fractional points (I guess Max For Live compatibility at 8.1, although you still had to pay for M4L to be able to get the benefit).

I love Ableton, but there are things they could do to improve their image after this debacle and I hope they will remember their customers who among the most loyal around, and aim to get back their reputation as one of the best companies out there for customer service.
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