Hie everybody,
I'm a professional jazz drummer and electronic musician based in Geneva, Switzerland.
As a laptop performer, I've always been missing high quality exciting and original acoustic drum loops.
As a drummer, I've acquired significant experience in both the jazz idiom and in playing electronic orientated music with machines, DJs and the like.
So I thought, why not bring both of these worlds together and produce a sample CD filled with acoustic drum loops. My aim would be to combine the following characteristics:
- fresh and unusual beats inspired from contemporary genres.
- pure acoustic drums with exciting new sounds (over the years I've built a whole collection of great sounding modern, vintage, and ethnic drums and percussion).
- highest recording quality - I've been working for the last five years with the same sound engineer.
- widest range of loop formats available (Wav, Rex, Appleloop, etc...).
- eventually 5.1 recording especially for Motu Mach 5 virtual sampler.
I am planning to start recording material for this sample CD in february 2005.
My questions are:
- am I the only one missing such original high quality acoustic drum loops?
- what type of tempos would be most valuable to you?
- what would you be most interested in: small cheap sample packs (ie about 10 dollars for about 20 samples) or a larger sample library?
- would you rather download the sample from a website, or order a CD?
Thank you for taking the time to answer any of the above...
Regards,
Tobie
acoustic drum loops sample library
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Ten dollars for twenty samples seems expensive.
In the software market it seems wise to offer the most stuff for the least amount of money as possible. For example, when a newbie compares the capabilities of Live 4 versus Logic 7, the $399 software seems like the better deal.
Be specific with your libraries. A "Jazz Drummer" loop set would be cool. There is always a market for all the drummerless singer songwriters out there that need the classic/basic beats. Keep in mind that for $40 they can get These Drums Are Loud by Prosessions and be all set.
I say go for it.
In the software market it seems wise to offer the most stuff for the least amount of money as possible. For example, when a newbie compares the capabilities of Live 4 versus Logic 7, the $399 software seems like the better deal.
Be specific with your libraries. A "Jazz Drummer" loop set would be cool. There is always a market for all the drummerless singer songwriters out there that need the classic/basic beats. Keep in mind that for $40 they can get These Drums Are Loud by Prosessions and be all set.
I say go for it.
Please dont feel bad about this comment, I am not putting you down. I hardly use loop CD s because they are week and/ or I can do it better, programming or playing. If I use something pre recorded it is from drummers (or any other musicians) who have the unique genius, abolutely outstanding quality. Examples are Sly Dunbar, Conti and number of similar releases.
If Dennis Chambers releases Loops I may buy them whatever the price, it will be 100 times cheaper then pay his flight, hotel and fees.
But Tobie who are you to expect someone would pay for your loops, Buddy Rich reincarnated ? ( and if you really are drum genius, I will be the first to be your biggest fan and customer) I wish you to be/become world funkiest, grooviest musician ever but................, get real
If Dennis Chambers releases Loops I may buy them whatever the price, it will be 100 times cheaper then pay his flight, hotel and fees.
But Tobie who are you to expect someone would pay for your loops, Buddy Rich reincarnated ? ( and if you really are drum genius, I will be the first to be your biggest fan and customer) I wish you to be/become world funkiest, grooviest musician ever but................, get real
My opinion is, that most recently recorded drum loops sample cd's are weak and not very phat and not very interesting (for me)
Thats why 95% of the drum loops I use are from old funk / reggae / soul /jazz records. They have a phat and funky sound. Check out the drumdrops sample cd's, I might invest in one of them, they recorded classic old skool drummers on classic old drum kits, thru vintage desks onto 2" tape. Now that should sound quite phat ...
IF u can get a good phat sound to compete with old jazz/funk recordings, or just really solid clean recordings with interesting sounds i might be interested.
Thats why 95% of the drum loops I use are from old funk / reggae / soul /jazz records. They have a phat and funky sound. Check out the drumdrops sample cd's, I might invest in one of them, they recorded classic old skool drummers on classic old drum kits, thru vintage desks onto 2" tape. Now that should sound quite phat ...
IF u can get a good phat sound to compete with old jazz/funk recordings, or just really solid clean recordings with interesting sounds i might be interested.
Dear All, thanks for your great feedback...
My opinion is, that most recently recorded drum loops sample cd's are weak and not very phat and not very interesting (for me)
I fully agree, that was one of my main motivation when I decided to start.I hardly use loop CD s because they are week and/ or I can do it better, programming or playing.
Your right. I'm a nobody. Still, I got one of Geneva's leading recording studio and one of the top french sound engineer to coproduce this sample CD with me. Think they would waste their time and invest money / time into this if they weren't ethusiastic about it?But Tobie who are you to expect someone would pay for your loops, Buddy Rich reincarnated ? ( and if you really are drum genius, I will be the first to be your biggest fan and customer) I wish you to be/become world funkiest, grooviest musician ever but................, get real
..
some drumloop cd's are very cool. there are many famous drummers working on those disks. but I don't mind famous or not famous. it needs to sound right. I have a buddy who can do Steward Copeland style and it's great. just because he loves Copeland and Wailers and stuff.
good luck with your project, I think some people will be interested if it sounds right and if the loops are inspiring
good luck with your project, I think some people will be interested if it sounds right and if the loops are inspiring
Dear Tobie,
A live drum sample CD for electronic orientated music sounds like good idea, if it’s a quality product that contains loops and hits, I’d be interested in it.
The best format would probably be Wav, Rex, Appleloops and 24bit would definitely be worth considering, as people are increasingly becoming interested in 24bit - it would also increase the shelf life of the sample collection.
I would probably go for a large sample library covering as wide a tempo/style as possible. A multi-format CD set or a DVD, full of interesting top quality 24bit loops and hits would be nice.
You could have small sample packs from the collection available for download from a website and offer the chance to upgrade to the full collection at a reduced price at a later date.
Or you could go for smaller single CD volumes covering a more specific tempo/style, but this would probably increase your production costs compared to one large collection.
A lot of the larger soundware companies are concentrating on romplers at the moment, so it looks like a good time to produce an interesting sample collection, you just need to make sure you have a very high quality product that gives value for money and make sure you organise/package the library well.
As to the quantity of loops, it’s probably best to give the best possible value for money you can, try to set a new standard for other to beat.
For an idea of the amount/price take a look at PowerFX Apple Loops for instance 500-600mb of loops for £30 or Loopmaster Percussionism 600-700mb of loops and hits for £40.
Take a look at a fairly new range of sample CDs at
http://www.samplelab.com
You will see that SampleLab have paid a lot of attention to the quality of the loops (unfortunately they have gone a bit overboard with effects on a couple of the releases which is a shame) also check the packaging out.
Hope this helps and the best of luck with it.
Ashley_K
A live drum sample CD for electronic orientated music sounds like good idea, if it’s a quality product that contains loops and hits, I’d be interested in it.
The best format would probably be Wav, Rex, Appleloops and 24bit would definitely be worth considering, as people are increasingly becoming interested in 24bit - it would also increase the shelf life of the sample collection.
I would probably go for a large sample library covering as wide a tempo/style as possible. A multi-format CD set or a DVD, full of interesting top quality 24bit loops and hits would be nice.
You could have small sample packs from the collection available for download from a website and offer the chance to upgrade to the full collection at a reduced price at a later date.
Or you could go for smaller single CD volumes covering a more specific tempo/style, but this would probably increase your production costs compared to one large collection.
A lot of the larger soundware companies are concentrating on romplers at the moment, so it looks like a good time to produce an interesting sample collection, you just need to make sure you have a very high quality product that gives value for money and make sure you organise/package the library well.
As to the quantity of loops, it’s probably best to give the best possible value for money you can, try to set a new standard for other to beat.
For an idea of the amount/price take a look at PowerFX Apple Loops for instance 500-600mb of loops for £30 or Loopmaster Percussionism 600-700mb of loops and hits for £40.
Take a look at a fairly new range of sample CDs at
http://www.samplelab.com
You will see that SampleLab have paid a lot of attention to the quality of the loops (unfortunately they have gone a bit overboard with effects on a couple of the releases which is a shame) also check the packaging out.
Hope this helps and the best of luck with it.
Ashley_K
Tobie, I wrote clearly that i do not want to put you down, I am sure you are a brilliant drummer.
I dont give a damn if somebody is famous or not but how good he or she is, Dennis Chambers is famous, Sly Dunbar is not ( anymore, and anyway was mostly musicians musician) but to me t one is not funkier then the other, just 2 bright star in the drums universe. Phil Collins is more famous then any of them but it is not a reason I would use sample of his drums.
There are thousands of people who play music and very few who are outstanding, some of these are available on sample discs already so you are against though competition. You may be the greatest drummer in Geneva but it is just small town in a small country with the population smaller then Brooklyn. The studio aces in NY, LA, London are so much in demand not because they are famous, most often no, but because of their sonic quality and skills. If you confident enough go ahead
The market is just so full then it would have to be something extraordinary to bite through. I wish you all success like to any fellow musician but you may be disappointed, investing lots of time and work. All above said it is all up to you, maybe you are capable of beating all these big shots and I will be begging to get a copy of your work. Good luck !
I dont give a damn if somebody is famous or not but how good he or she is, Dennis Chambers is famous, Sly Dunbar is not ( anymore, and anyway was mostly musicians musician) but to me t one is not funkier then the other, just 2 bright star in the drums universe. Phil Collins is more famous then any of them but it is not a reason I would use sample of his drums.
There are thousands of people who play music and very few who are outstanding, some of these are available on sample discs already so you are against though competition. You may be the greatest drummer in Geneva but it is just small town in a small country with the population smaller then Brooklyn. The studio aces in NY, LA, London are so much in demand not because they are famous, most often no, but because of their sonic quality and skills. If you confident enough go ahead
The market is just so full then it would have to be something extraordinary to bite through. I wish you all success like to any fellow musician but you may be disappointed, investing lots of time and work. All above said it is all up to you, maybe you are capable of beating all these big shots and I will be begging to get a copy of your work. Good luck !
Out of interest which of the of the many Drum sample CDs do you think Tobie will have to beat to be a success.
What’s the best live acoustic drum sample CD for use with electronic music, any recommendations?
I’ve never bought just a sample CD with just live acoustic drums on it, only percussion.
Ashley_K
What’s the best live acoustic drum sample CD for use with electronic music, any recommendations?
I’ve never bought just a sample CD with just live acoustic drums on it, only percussion.
Ashley_K
Reason drum refill for example, have it since a week and and I am amazed every single time I use it, they went over the edge with mics used, placement. They are very heavy didnt even work with 512 MB Ram ( the 24 version) 768 seems minimum. There are many products like Stylus that might be even better In combination with DNA midi, groove files done by Ernst Cholakis with some of the world finest drummers are hard to beat.
To me all these loops done by OK or even good anonimus studio musicians have no value for me, dont like to hear them neither use. Though atractive economically studio work is the personality killer by its nature. There is no life, no soul, no spirit. OK Live opens possiblity to "better" them, but I rather use phrases that inspire me, lame ones can do myself
Any knows if I could get the legit Marcus miller CD somewhere, other then that pirate who advertise here?
To me all these loops done by OK or even good anonimus studio musicians have no value for me, dont like to hear them neither use. Though atractive economically studio work is the personality killer by its nature. There is no life, no soul, no spirit. OK Live opens possiblity to "better" them, but I rather use phrases that inspire me, lame ones can do myself
Any knows if I could get the legit Marcus miller CD somewhere, other then that pirate who advertise here?
Rikhyray - do you mean Spectrasonics Bass Legends Sample Cd featuring Marcus Miller, John Patitucci and Abraham Laboriel
Try http://www.timespace.com
and look for Bass Legends
Ashley_K
Try http://www.timespace.com
and look for Bass Legends
Ashley_K
Dear all,
Thanks for the many tips, I checked out the sample library you advised... some sound really good, especially the Ernest Cholakis series... but none seem to offer what I've been looking for, ie contemporary drum rythms (break-beat, nu-jazz, drum'n'bass, etc... influenced).
Thanks also for the 24 bit tip... I'll make sure to offer both 24 and 16 on my sample CD.
Another thing I was thinking about: would you find Ableton .asd files useful? Is it current in sample packs?
regards,
Tobie
Thanks for the many tips, I checked out the sample library you advised... some sound really good, especially the Ernest Cholakis series... but none seem to offer what I've been looking for, ie contemporary drum rythms (break-beat, nu-jazz, drum'n'bass, etc... influenced).
Thanks also for the 24 bit tip... I'll make sure to offer both 24 and 16 on my sample CD.
Another thing I was thinking about: would you find Ableton .asd files useful? Is it current in sample packs?
regards,
Tobie
Dear Tobie,
It’s probably not worth including .asd files as long as you cut your loops accurately and label with bpm etc.
You would be better of spending the time making Apple Loops, especially if the format takes of and more application take advantage of the format – maybe even live will support the format in the future.
Also you’ll end up with two files to worry about instead of just one audio files – just try to keep it simple.
Ashley_K
It’s probably not worth including .asd files as long as you cut your loops accurately and label with bpm etc.
You would be better of spending the time making Apple Loops, especially if the format takes of and more application take advantage of the format – maybe even live will support the format in the future.
Also you’ll end up with two files to worry about instead of just one audio files – just try to keep it simple.
Ashley_K
Thanks Ashley, I thought it is out of print. This is kind of stuff I am looking for. So maybe you or anyone else would have idea about Robbie Shakespeare. I know there was to be a release of sample CD together with Sly Dunbar but all I ever saw were anoucements about it never really seen the product in real or virtual world. Any other bass samples CDs by real musicians. "Real musician" means in this context people who do their style no "able to play it all" studio specialist.
Tobie, I would suggest to find a "hook" something, that would make your product providing something others do not deliver.
I doubt that D&B, breakbeats gives you any advantage since originally they are nothing else then recycling, processing etc the original old school stuff. Carefull investigating the market, good planning might be the main work while actual recording the easiet part. Since you confident "how to " and you have the conditions, spend maximum time on "what to".
The great idea like the Live Refill.
Myself as a customer I may say what I hate about sample CDs is the amount of time spend to make them of any use. Editing , correcting bad cuts. Then the organising in a smart way. Myself and I believe any producer will be ready to pay for saving time and getting product ready to quick application. Structuring, naming etc, etc. You could also turn the thing around and make a virtue out of disadvantage. Dropping these "myserious" consistent inconsistencies of star drummers and making the basic elements "bausteine" ready for further customising. So your product wouldnt be "instant" groove but high quality basic material, rather straight having as your potential customers composers, producers who want the top quality raw, uncolored material. Live offers such easy possibility of working with timing, through warp. So your product wont groove out of the box, because it is oriented at a professional, not amateur- who expect instant result. Since the pro need stuff for their work, they are potentially more reliable customers. If your stuff is top notch nobody bothers it cost little more or less.
Well, just some ideas, I may be completly wrong, but perhaps something will inspire you to better ones. Good luck.
Tobie, I would suggest to find a "hook" something, that would make your product providing something others do not deliver.
I doubt that D&B, breakbeats gives you any advantage since originally they are nothing else then recycling, processing etc the original old school stuff. Carefull investigating the market, good planning might be the main work while actual recording the easiet part. Since you confident "how to " and you have the conditions, spend maximum time on "what to".
The great idea like the Live Refill.
Myself as a customer I may say what I hate about sample CDs is the amount of time spend to make them of any use. Editing , correcting bad cuts. Then the organising in a smart way. Myself and I believe any producer will be ready to pay for saving time and getting product ready to quick application. Structuring, naming etc, etc. You could also turn the thing around and make a virtue out of disadvantage. Dropping these "myserious" consistent inconsistencies of star drummers and making the basic elements "bausteine" ready for further customising. So your product wouldnt be "instant" groove but high quality basic material, rather straight having as your potential customers composers, producers who want the top quality raw, uncolored material. Live offers such easy possibility of working with timing, through warp. So your product wont groove out of the box, because it is oriented at a professional, not amateur- who expect instant result. Since the pro need stuff for their work, they are potentially more reliable customers. If your stuff is top notch nobody bothers it cost little more or less.
Well, just some ideas, I may be completly wrong, but perhaps something will inspire you to better ones. Good luck.